Perfection And the New Birth

[Darrell C]

Jesus' entire life was to do one thing. Plant the seed. There are some who never receive the "seed" [Matthew 13:19 KJB], but there are others which did "receive", but by various means, some "become" unfruitful, for they had "believe[d] for a while", but in process of time "fall" away, and thus are good for nothing, but to be cut down, and thrown into the fire. Some might "dureth for a while", but they did not so unto the "end".

No, Jesus' life was not about "one thing," lol.

First, He had a ministry that was specific to Israel, and for the benefit of others I will show that:


Matthew 15:24
King James Version (KJV)

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


We can assume the Lord was telling the truth here, right?

When He sent out His Disciples to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom (not the Gospel of Jesus Christ) He forbade then from going to Gentiles and Samaritans. Why? Because His ministry was specific to Israel:


Matthew 10
King James Version (KJV)

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


Secondly, He came to offer up Himself a Sacrifice for the sins of men, which is distinct from His ministry to Israel, which worked within the framework of the Revelation men had received up to that point, and what was specific in the Promises of God was the restoration of Israel as a Nation.

Just before Peter rebukes Christ when He gives the disciples the GOspel of Christ, He forbids them to tell any man that which the Father had revealed to them, that He was in fact the Christ, the Son of the Living God:


Matthew 16:20-23
King James Version (KJV)

20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

The Revelation of the Mystery of the Gospel would begin when the Promised Spirit is sent, after Christ returns to Heaven as He taught in John 14 & 16.

Jesus' entire life was to do one thing. Plant the seed. There are some who never receive the "seed" [Matthew 13:19 KJB], but there are others which did "receive", but by various means, some "become" unfruitful, for they had "believe[d] for a while", but in process of time "fall" away, and thus are good for nothing, but to be cut down, and thrown into the fire. Some might "dureth for a while", but they did not so unto the "end".

There is no-one who does not in some way receive revelation from God, that is the point Paul makes in Romans 2, as shown before.

And there is nothing in the teaching that teaches that the good ground becomes unfruitful. That is false.

That you would try to use this to teach loss of salvation shows the desperate measures you, and other religious folk will go to when they try to support their doctrine. The only increase this kind of wresting brings is a better attendance record and more money in the bowl.

Have therefore, "patience" of the "saints":

Luke 8:15 KJB - But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Rather, use common sense when trying to expound upon the Word of God.

The Good Ground does not fail to produce fruit.

Like Paul and Apollos, consider the greater Gardeners: Jesus, Holy Ghost and Father:

1 Corinthians 3:6 KJB - I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
Jesus planted.

Holy Ghost waters.

Except it remains that Paul planted, and Apollos watered.

Stick with what Scripture teaches, and it will dispel any notions of teaching false doctrines, because the two are not compatible.

Father, giveth the increase, even as He is the Husbandman [John 15:1; James 5:7 KJB].

And that I agree with.


God bless.

 

[BobRyan]

Darrell C said: ↑
...are found is about to close, so, in order that I might address them, I am carrying them into this new thread.

Anyone is welcome to address either Perfection or the New Birth.

I will start this thread by saying that One Baptism errs in this statement:

One Baptism said: ↑
"remission" is forgiveness of those sins which are "past":

IF any error at all was made -- it was made by you in that case.

2 Peter 1:9
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

When you point at the exact statement in scripture and say "error"... you have your first clue that your doctrine is in error

We may need to see that again.

2 Peter 1:9
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins

Wrong again, Bob. You have not provided the actual Scripture used to make the statement.

.

NIV
2 Peter 1:9
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

NASB
2 Peter 1:9
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.

KJV
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

NKJV
2 Peter 1:9
9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

(I am rather enjoying this)

 

[BobRyan]

Wrong again, Bob. You have not provided the actual Scripture used to make the statement.

Let me help you with that:
Now let's expand the text you erroneously tie to my charge of error...


2 Peter 1:5-10
King James Version (KJV)

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Thanks but I already quoted the KJV on that.


Notice this --

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

give "diligence" to MAKE your calling and election sure.

Not "diligence TO SEE IF your calling and election was sure"

You can't "make yourself 20 years old".. you either are or you are not.

We do not say "give all diligence to MAKE yourself 20 years old"

You might wish to have rewritten the text - "fixed it" to say --- " make sure you are actually saved."

And if you actually had the right Scripture you might have something to say.

I already have this one

2 Peter 1:9
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins

NIV
2 Peter 1:9
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

NASB
2 Peter 1:9
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.

KJV
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

NKJV
2 Peter 1:9
9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

(I am rather enjoying this)

What I don't have in 2Pet 1:9 is your writing " make sure you are actually saved." I think we both knew that.

 

[Darrell C]

Thanks but I already quoted the KJV on that.

Of course. Now if you could just understand it, we could get somewhere.

Notice this --

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

give "diligence" to MAKE your calling and election sure.

Not "diligence TO SEE IF your calling and election was sure"

That it is an exhortation to verify one is saved or not is pretty obvious Bob...

...seeing men do not save themselves.

Understand?

Did you call yourself?

Did you elect yourself?

Secondly, there is no conflict with the brethren making their calling and election sure. The exhortation is that we do not "stumble."

But that "sure" can be used in a context of valid...


Romans 4:16
King James Version (KJV)

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,


2 Corinthians 1:7
King James Version (KJV)

7 And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.


Hebrews 6:19
King James Version (KJV)

19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;


Hebrews 9:17
King James Version (KJV)

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.



Third, we can play translation pong with this as well:


2 Peter 1:10
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;


2 Peter 1:10
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

10 Therefore, brothers, make every effort to confirm your calling and election, because if you do these things you will never stumble.


2 Peter 1:10
New English Translation (NET Bible)

10 Therefore, brothers and sisters, make every effort to be sure of your calling and election. For by doing this you will never stumble into sin.


2 Peter 1:10
New International Version (NIV)

10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters,[a] make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble,


I am sure I could find more, but Biblegateway only gives five parallels, and that is good enough to make the point. Sine you seem top think multiple translations favorable to your view clinches the proper understanding, I guess you will have to yield this point.



But, the most important issue is the context where it is found:


2 Peter 1
King James Version (KJV)

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:


What does it mean "if these things not be in you?"

What does it mean to be barren and unfruitful...in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ?


Lastly, even if it is taken to mean that rather than verifying one is called and elect, the worse thing said is, not that one loses their salvation, but that they will be barren and unfruitful in the knowledge of Jesus Christ. Which itself conflicts with Christ's teaching that everyone in Him will bear fruit:


John 15
King James Version (KJV)

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.


Matthew 13:23
King James Version (KJV)

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.


Colossians 1:5-7
King James Version (KJV)

5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

You can't "make yourself 20 years old".. you either are or you are not.

I would agree, but, you can make sure you are twenty years old, lol.

We do not say "give all diligence to MAKE yourself 20 years old"

And it doesn't say "give diligence to make yourself called and elect."

You might wish to have rewritten the text - "fixed it" to say --- " make sure you are actually saved."

Numerous translators and Theologians see it that way.

I already have this one

2 Peter 1:9
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins

I will admit, that does make it seem that born again believers are in view.

But it still doesn't impose loss of salvation into Peter's words.

Hence the exhortation to make sure one is called and elect.

I already have this one

2 Peter 1:9
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins

NIV
2 Peter 1:9
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

NASB
2 Peter 1:9
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.

KJV
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

NKJV
2 Peter 1:9
9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

We still have to deal with the fact that "these things" are lacking in the one who is blind.


2 Peter 1
King James Version (KJV)

1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:


Its kind of obvious, Bob, "Make sure these things are in you."

(I am rather enjoying this)

Me too, isn't it great when its Scripture Alone we are dealing with?

And so far, you haven't produces one passage that teaches born again believers can lose their salvation.

The best you can do with this one is view them as barren and unfruitful, and salvation is not based on works we do, which is the entire point of Eternal Salvation being a gift.

What I don't have in 2Pet 1:9 is your writing " make sure you are actually saved." I think we both knew that.

Not at all.

Here is a similar statement:

2 Corinthians 13:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?


Not any different than Peter telling them, and us...to make sure we are called and Elect.

The evidence will be in how one progresses in their faith, and whether "these things be in them.




God bless.

 

[BobRyan]

I would agree, but, you can make sure you are twenty years old, lol.

A 20 year old can't do anything to make themselves 19.

A 5 year old cannot do anything to make themselves be 20.

They are what they are.

You might wish to have rewritten the text - "fixed it" to say --- " make sure you are actually saved."

Contrast that to salvation --


10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

give "diligence" to MAKE your calling and election sure.

Not "diligence TO SEE IF your calling and election was sure"

You can't "make yourself 20 years old".. you either are or you are not.

We do not say "give all diligence to MAKE yourself 20 years old"


2 Peter 1:9
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins

NIV
2 Peter 1:9
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

NASB
2 Peter 1:9
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.

KJV
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

NKJV
2 Peter 1:9
9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

(I am rather enjoying this)

What I don't have in 2Pet 1:9 is your writing " make sure you are actually saved." I think we both knew that

That it is an exhortation to verify one is saved or not is pretty obvious Bob...
..

It does not say "be diligent to tell yourself you are saved"
It does not say "be diligent to see if you got saved yesterday"

It says " give diligence to make your calling and election sure "

Like we might say to someone on a journey "give diligence to make your arrival back at home a certainty"

 

[Yeshua1]

Peter was just asking those who are professing to be saved to make sure that they really are saved!

 

[Darrell C]

A 20 year old can't do anything to make themselves 19.

A 5 year old cannot do anything to make themselves be 20.

They are what they are.

I often have to ask my wife how old I am. I just don't give it much thought.

Apparently you did not understand the example, I will give it again:

I would agree, but, you can make sure you are twenty years old, lol.

You might wish to have rewritten the text - "fixed it" to say --- " make sure you are actually saved."

I am not the only one who sees this as the proper interpretation:


2 Peter 1:10
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;


2 Peter 1:10
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

10 Therefore, brothers, make every effort to confirm your calling and election, because if you do these things you will never stumble.


2 Peter 1:10
New English Translation (NET Bible)

10 Therefore, brothers and sisters, make every effort to be sure of your calling and election. For by doing this you will never stumble into sin.


2 Peter 1:10
New International Version (NIV)

10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters,[a] make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble,


Geez, Bob, you are like a dog with a bone sitting in the middle of a buffet: so intent on your bone you are missing the fact that there is strong meat all around you.

I guess, since you cannot actually address the points raised to you, you will continue to clutter this thread with the multiple reposting of a singular point which has already received at least three points addressing it.

But that's okay, because that is how my arguments are made more solid, so thatnks friend.




Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

Contrast that to salvation --


10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

give "diligence" to MAKE your calling and election sure.

And that is why you preach demon doctrine, Bob...you think men can secure their salvation.

Have to make sure the Eternal Remission of sins taught in Scripture isn't revoked for poor old Bob.

This statement...


2 Peter 1:10
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;


2 Peter 1:10
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

10 Therefore, brothers, make every effort to confirm your calling and election, because if you do these things you will never stumble.


2 Peter 1:10
New English Translation (NET Bible)

10 Therefore, brothers and sisters, make every effort to be sure of your calling and election. For by doing this you will never stumble into sin.


2 Peter 1:10
New International Version (NIV)

10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters,[a] make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble,


...does not impact their salvation, it has to do with their daily conversation. The "stumbling" takes place right here on earth, not in an eternal context.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

Not "diligence TO SEE IF your calling and election was sure"

Its something all men should do:


2 Corinthians 13:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?


I can play the same game you do, and repeat what I have already said:


Romans 4:16
King James Version (KJV)

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,


2 Corinthians 1:7
King James Version (KJV)

7 And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.


Hebrews 6:19
King James Version (KJV)

19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;


Hebrews 9:17
King James Version (KJV)

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.


Here is a question for you, though I know you won't answer: Is the "testament" above stated to be valid after men are dead?

That is the same meaning found in this:

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:


I know your doctrines of men blind you to this, but hey, at least others are getting the chance to make understanding SDA doctrine as a well without water...sure.

So answer the question, Bob. If you are so sure of your doctrine, surely you can do better than gnawing on the remnants of a bone...


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

You can't "make yourself 20 years old".. you either are or you are not.

We do not say "give all diligence to MAKE yourself 20 years old"

Bob, I know you can't see this either, but you are actually arguing my point at this time.

I agree, you cannot make yourself called and elect, just as you cannot make yourself 20 years old.

But, as I said, you can make sure you know you are the right age, just as you can make sure you are actually called and elect.

Next question which will go unanswered:


2 Corinthians 13:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?


Is Paul telling Christians to prove to themselves that they are in the faith, or...reprobates?

Simple question third grade Sunday school kids could answer.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

(I am rather enjoying this)

Actually, it is quite obvious you are not. You are at another roadblock to your demon doctrine and are forced to reiterate the same argument already answered multiple times.

So let's be honest here, okay?


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

2 Peter 1:9
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins

NIV
2 Peter 1:9
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

NASB
2 Peter 1:9
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.

KJV
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

NKJV
2 Peter 1:9
9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

And...?

How about addressing something that verifies Eternal Salvation, this gets a little old. Kind of like you trying to teach Moses and Elijah were glorified before the Firstborn from the Dead, Jesus Christ.

Here it is:


1 Peter 1
King James Version (KJV)

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


We have...

1. The truth that men are saved by God, not themselves, and that applies to Salvation as a whole, not just the demon doctrine of Christ being a "starting point." Christ is the Way, not a path to the Way;
2. The truth that sanctified by the Spirit, not efforts we put forth;
3. The truth that we are born again by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead;
4. Our inheritance is incorruptible;
5. Our inheritance is undefiled;
6. Our inheritance does not fade away;
7. Our inheritance is reserved in Heaven;
8. We are kept by the power of God, not the power of Bob;
9. The salvation revealed in the last time is the living hope of glorification and eternal communion with God in Heaven.
10. And lastly, being relevant to your reiterated demon doctrine...

...we are Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, which means we do not play a part in whether we are elect, or called. We do not begin it, we do not maintain it, we do not finish it, because...


Hebrews 5:9
King James Version (KJV)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


Hebrews 12:2
King James Version (KJV)

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


Why don't you believe what the Word of God states, Bob?

Never mind, I know you won't answer that either.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

What I don't have in 2Pet 1:9 is your writing " make sure you are actually saved." I think we both knew that

What we both know is that you are incapable of actually addressing all the points which show your doctrine is the damnable doctrine of demons which denies the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

You really should say anything bad about Catholics, Bob, you teach the same demon doctrine they do in regards to Eternal Salvation.

Here it is again, to show I am not the one who originated the interpretation, nor that it is unreasonable...


2 Corinthians 13:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?



Romans 4:16
King James Version (KJV)

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,


2 Corinthians 1:7
King James Version (KJV)

7 And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.


Hebrews 6:19
King James Version (KJV)

19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;


Hebrews 9:17
King James Version (KJV)

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.


You might want to give this some thought, Bob. You know that only Christ can save, so why are you teaching men they must keep their own salvation? Finish their own salvation? And you teach that men can be their own authors of salvation, because that is what you are teaching, when you teach men must do works to keep their salvation.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

It does not say "be diligent to tell yourself you are saved"

Correct, it says to be diligent to make sure you are saved, just like this does...


2 Corinthians 13:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

It does not say "be diligent to see if you got saved yesterday"

No, but yesterday you would know if you had been...


2 Peter 1
King James Version (KJV)

1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.


Again, I ask you: what happens if those things are not in them/us?

Answer the questions posed to you Bob, so you can begin to see the damnable error of your doctrine.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

It says " give diligence to make your calling and election sure "

Correct, give diligence to make sure you are called and Elect.

Prove to your own self, Bob, whether ye be in the Faith.

You won't do that by denying the Salvation of Jesus Christ, teaching for doctrine that men can secure their own salvation through works.

Like we might say to someone on a journey "give diligence to make your arrival back at home a certainty"

lol...again, you make my case for me.

Yes, Bob, be diligent to make you arrival at home a certainty, not...

...be diligent to make your arrival at home strong. Solid. Sound. Secure.

Make certain...you make it home. You want to go home, right Bob?


God bless.

 

[BobRyan]

A 20 year old can't do anything to make themselves 19.

A 5 year old cannot do anything to make themselves be 20.

They are what they are.

You might wish to have rewritten the text - "fixed it" to say --- " make sure you are actually saved."

Contrast that to salvation --


10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

give "diligence" to MAKE your calling and election sure.

Not "diligence TO SEE IF your calling and election was sure"

You can't "make yourself 20 years old".. you either are or you are not.

We do not say "give all diligence to MAKE yourself 20 years old"


2 Peter 1:9
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins

NIV
2 Peter 1:9
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

NASB
2 Peter 1:9
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.

KJV
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

NKJV
2 Peter 1:9
9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

(I am rather enjoying this)

What I don't have in 2Pet 1:9 is your writing " make sure you are actually saved." I think we both knew that



It does not say "be diligent to tell yourself you are saved"
It does not say "be diligent to see if you got saved yesterday"

It says " give diligence to make your calling and election sure "

Like we might say to someone on a journey "give diligence to make your arrival back at home a certainty"

It does not say "be diligent to tell yourself you are saved"
It does not say "be diligent to see if you got saved yesterday"

It says " give diligence to make your calling and election sure "

Like we might say to someone on a journey "give diligence to make your arrival back at home a certainty"

It does not say "do diligent research to see if you were ever once-saved-always-saved"

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

It is in being diligent to always do those things that the future holds "never fall"..

Correct, give diligence to make sure you are called and Elect.

Another good example of what we do not find in that text.

Focus is on "past sins" forgiven .. not on never needing forgiveness in the future.


2 Peter 1:9
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins

NIV
2 Peter 1:9
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

NASB
2 Peter 1:9
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.

KJV
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

NKJV
2 Peter 1:9
9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

 

[Darrell C]

It does not say "be diligent to tell yourself you are saved"
It does not say "be diligent to see if you got saved yesterday"

It says " give diligence to make your calling and election sure "

Like we might say to someone on a journey "give diligence to make your arrival back at home a certainty"

It does not say "do diligent research to see if you were ever once-saved-always-saved"

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

It is in being diligent to always do those things that the future holds "never fall"..



Another good example of what we do not find in that text.

Focus is on "past sins" forgiven .. not on never needing forgiveness in the future.


2 Peter 1:9
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins

NIV
2 Peter 1:9
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

NASB
2 Peter 1:9
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.

KJV
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

NKJV
2 Peter 1:9
9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

Let me know when you can answer the questions posed to you Bob.

Focus is on "past sins" forgiven .. not on never needing forgiveness in the future.

Which speaks of forgiveness relating to our temporal existence, not our eternal placement in Christ.

We have been made complete in regards to remission of sins forever:


Hebrews 10:14
King James Version (KJV)

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


Hebrews 10:14
New International Version (NIV)

14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.


Hebrews 10:14
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are sanctified.


Hebrews 10:14
English Standard Version (ESV)

14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.


Hebrews 10:14
New King James Version (NKJV)

14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.



Hebrews 10:14
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

14 for by one offering he hath perfected to the end those sanctified;


Hebrews 10:14
English Standard Version (ESV)

14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.


You are never going to change what this teaches, and it absolutely denies any validity to your doctrine, which again, is damnable demon doctrine.

Either get used to the fact you have embraced the doctrine of heretics, or change your view to correlate to the Whole Counsel of God's Word.


God bless.

 

[Yeshua1]

Let me know when you can answer the questions posed to you Bob.





Which speaks of forgiveness relating to our temporal existence, not our eternal placement in Christ.

We have been made complete in regards to remission of sins forever:


Hebrews 10:14
King James Version (KJV)

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


Hebrews 10:14
New International Version (NIV)

14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.


Hebrews 10:14
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are sanctified.


Hebrews 10:14
English Standard Version (ESV)

14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.


Hebrews 10:14
New King James Version (NKJV)

14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.



Hebrews 10:14
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

14 for by one offering he hath perfected to the end those sanctified;


Hebrews 10:14
English Standard Version (ESV)

14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.


You are never going to change what this teaches, and it absolutely denies any validity to your doctrine, which again, is damnable demon doctrine.

Either get used to the fact you have embraced the doctrine of heretics, or change your view to correlate to the Whole Counsel of God's Word.


God bless.

The Bible states to us that Jesus died to atone for ALL of the sins of the redeemed of the Lord, but those in the Sda seem to hold to His death gave a perfect pardon to all past sins, but now placed on probation going forward, to see if we can merit and keep it!

 

[Darrell C]

The Bible states to us that Jesus died to atone for ALL of the sins of the redeemed of the Lord, but those in the Sda seem to hold to His death gave a perfect pardon to all past sins, but now placed on probation going forward, to see if we can merit and keep it!

So what Scripture would you give them to counter such doctrine?


God bless.