Colossians 1:22
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Perfection And the New Birth
- Thread starter Darrell C
- Start date
Very good. Now tell me one thing...
...why didn't you put that in with your statement to begin with?
Come on, Yeshua1, you need to start using Scripture in your posts to support your statements. Stop being lazy, okay?
God bless.
I need to use scriptures more, but other need to discern the scriptures better also!
James Donovan
Member
No text is given anywhere in NT to "make sure you are saved". Gift of eternal life is not the same as remission of sins. All the soils in Matt 13 represent the saved. All 4. Not sure how the original question got to those points but it often happens. Those are my responses to some of the latter remarks.Wrong again, Bob. You have not provided the actual Scripture used to make the statement.
Let me help you with that:
Now let's expand the text you erroneously tie to my charge of error...
2 Peter 1:5-10
King James Version (KJV)
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
The point is...make sure you are actually saved.
And if you actually had the right Scripture you might have something to say. As it is, you don't.
So I will get to the error which, hopefully, will help you to understand this...
Hebrews 10:14
King James Version (KJV)
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
...and you will stop embarrassing yourself in regards to the contrary doctrine you teach. Or I should say...try to teach.
God bless.
James Donovan
Member
Neither of these verses are about salvation. They are for fully eternally secure saved people and issues for believers. At some point in your study you have to at least consider the NT is written to already saved people not to the lost or that favorite of favorites the "never really saved people"I would agree, but, you can make sure you are twenty years old, lol.
And it doesn't say "give diligence to make yourself called and elect."
Numerous translators and Theologians see it that way.
I will admit, that does make it seem that born again believers are in view.
But it still doesn't impose loss of salvation into Peter's words.
Hence the exhortation to make sure one is called and elect.
We still have to deal with the fact that "these things" are lacking in the one who is blind.
2 Peter 1
King James Version (KJV)
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
Its kind of obvious, Bob, "Make sure these things are in you."
Me too, isn't it great when its Scripture Alone we are dealing with?
And so far, you haven't produces one passage that teaches born again believers can lose their salvation.
The best you can do with this one is view them as barren and unfruitful, and salvation is not based on works we do, which is the entire point of Eternal Salvation being a gift.
Not at all.
Here is a similar statement:
2 Corinthians 13:5
King James Version (KJV)
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Not any different than Peter telling them, and us...to make sure we are called and Elect.
The evidence will be in how one progresses in their faith, and whether "these things be in them.
God bless.
Just because you are ignorant of them doesn't mean this basic principle isn't in Scripture:
2 Peter 1:10
King James Version (KJV)
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2 Corinthians 13:5
King James Version (KJV)
3 Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you.
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
There are numerous lessons in Christ's teaching, as well as that of the Apostles that call us to examine our lives and know our faith in Christ is genuine.
Here is another example:
1 John 1:8-10
King James Version (KJV)
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Continued...
True, but you never have one without the other.
If you teach men are forgiven their sins but not also at the same time bestowed Eternal Life, you are grossly in error and have embraced a false gospel.
Colossians 1:12-14
King James Version (KJV)
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Read your Bible, my friend, not the doctrine of cults that have been rebuked since the First Century by those God gave us to write His Holy Word.
You are grossly mistaken. I will post the entire parable because it seems that you have never actually read it before:
Matthew 13:15-23
King James Version (KJV)
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Only this last is considered good ground.
Secondly, the Mystery of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is not in view, the Gospel of the Kingdom, which was what Christ ministered unto Israel (only).
His rebuke is that they are dull of hearing, which is what the Writer of Hebrews charges his Hebrew brethren with:
Hebrews 5:10-12
King James Version (KJV)
10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Same as the first point, the people rebuked are ignorant of the Word of God, and are charged to examine themselves.
So I will suggest to you...
Hebrews 6:11-12
King James Version (KJV)
11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
Stop being lazy in regard to the Word of God.
You impose the exact opposite of what the Lord teaches. His rebuke is they are dull of hearing, and that "but..."
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
...is probably de most important word in the statement for you to understand right now.
Continued...
Only one is good ground. The Lord clearly distinguishes between the four.
Well, laziness tends to make one unable to follow a discussion.
Those are your opinions.
Come back when you actually have something of value to contribute to the discussion.
God bless.
Sure they are.
I agree, however, they charge an examination of self.
Again, you are ignorant of something that is very basic.
Try reading this again:
2 Corinthians 13:5
King James Version (KJV)
3 Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you.
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Perhaps a newer translation will help:
2 Corinthians 13:3-5
New King James Version (NKJV)
3 since you seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, who is not weak toward you, but mighty in you.
4 For though He was crucified in weakness, yet He lives by the power of God. For we also are weak in Him, but we shall live with Him by the power of God toward you.
5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.
2 Corinthians 13:3-5
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
3 since you are seeking for proof of the Christ who speaks in me, and who is not weak toward you, but mighty in you. 4 For indeed He was crucified because of weakness, yet He lives because of the power of God. For we also are weak [a]in Him, yet we will live with Him because of the power of God directed toward you.
5 Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?
2 Corinthians 13:3-5
New International Version (NIV)
3 since you are demanding proof that Christ is speaking through me. He is not weak in dealing with you, but is powerful among you. 4 For to be sure, he was crucified in weakness, yet he lives by God’s power. Likewise, we are weak in him, yet by God’s power we will live with him in our dealing with you.
5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?
It's good advice to all of us.
God bless.
James Donovan
Member
Every verse you quoted or cited is written to already eternally saved people. Every. Single. One. I stand by my statement. Those conditions and warnings are to saved and secure people, Brethren, brothers in Christ and deal with fellowship not eternal life ( which is by grace alone) or are warnings of consequences if certain things persist. I saw the post on justification by faith is not enough. Too bad I can't get in there. Unbelievable the things people believe and teach anymore.