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Perspective
- Thread starter FrigidDev
- Start date
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
Perspective? A fool attempting to sound wise while reinforcing his own foolishness.
FrigidDev
Member
Oh come on. It's a true quote. Can you imagine someone walking up to you and threatening to punch you in your aura? You wouldn't believe them right? It's the same difference with christianity.
You do need perspective, that is certain! Neither I, the Chaplin, the Christian you speak of nor any other person on this planet has the power to threaten you with Hell. If you were to read a couple of sentences, those at the address, Matthew 28:18-20, you would find that as a follower of Jesus, the Christ we all seek to become like, we are commissioned to make converts and it sounds as though you were warned, not threatened, but warned of the Eternal Destination and the suffering thereof. This person, male or female, loves your soul and wants only good for you.
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
Being a 'true quote' doesn't exclude it from being foolishness.
Only idiotic and deeply misguided Christians threaten unbelievers with Hell.
FrigidDev,
To believe is to understand. If you're a Christian, then you must believe in Jesus. If you believe that Jesus is God, then you must believe in Heaven. If you believe in Heaven, then you must also believe in Hell. As such, Hell is a reality; and understanding that, we also understand that anyone who isn't saved is destined to go there. Further, because scripture tells us no one's good enough for Heaven, because all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, we understand that none of us *deserve* Heaven. If we don't deserve Heaven because of our iniquity, then we *must* deserve Hell.
Thus, deserving Hell is not a "threat." It's a reality. It's a warning. The good news is, even though we deserve it, Jesus loves us enough that He took our place in the condemnation. That's the point of the message of "you deserve Hell": to let people know that His grace and mercy keeps us from it.
To call this a "perspective" is to water down the reality.
To believe is to understand. If you're a Christian, then you must believe in Jesus. If you believe that Jesus is God, then you must believe in Heaven. If you believe in Heaven, then you must also believe in Hell. As such, Hell is a reality; and understanding that, we also understand that anyone who isn't saved is destined to go there. Further, because scripture tells us no one's good enough for Heaven, because all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, we understand that none of us *deserve* Heaven. If we don't deserve Heaven because of our iniquity, then we *must* deserve Hell.
Thus, deserving Hell is not a "threat." It's a reality. It's a warning. The good news is, even though we deserve it, Jesus loves us enough that He took our place in the condemnation. That's the point of the message of "you deserve Hell": to let people know that His grace and mercy keeps us from it.
To call this a "perspective" is to water down the reality.
You know these so called threats of hell actually happen so few times the whole idea is insignificant.
FrigidDev
Member
If God didn't want people to go to hell...he wouldn't send them to hell. The whole notion of God somehow "not wanting" for people to go to hell, but he just HAS to because he's a "just judge", is weird to me. He makes the rules, he doesn't have to torture people for eternity just because they don't believe in him.
That's one of the things I'll never understand about God.
That's one of the things I'll never understand about God.
There is a point to be made that God doesn't send anyone to Hell. Rather, because of the broken sinfulness of mankind we stand in separation from God whose holiness and purity cannot share space with sinfulness. By the design of free will, mankind chose to live in separation from God and thus makes the decision, of their own volition, to live outside of communion with God. Being just and holy, God cannot live at peace with sin and impurity. Yet in His graciousness, God provides a way to rectify the standing of mankind with Himself by sending His Son to provide the final atonement for sin. Without Christ, our nature disposition is eternal separation from God. In Christ, we can renew our communion and enjoy peace and fellowship with the holy God of the Bible. No other religion provides an adequate, or complete, healing for this brokenness and the resulting sin and evil.
Hell is not something to be taken lightly, nor is it something to be threatened with. Instead, the Christian who shares the Gospel stands like a guardrail at the edge of a cliff face, noting that on the other side is a plunging unto death but taking no joy in those who disregard the warnings we offer.
Hell is not something to be taken lightly, nor is it something to be threatened with. Instead, the Christian who shares the Gospel stands like a guardrail at the edge of a cliff face, noting that on the other side is a plunging unto death but taking no joy in those who disregard the warnings we offer.
FrigidDev
Member
No. We are sin filled creatures at conception. Someone on an island who lived before boats were invented, was never given the chance to "choose", between Jesus and not Jesus. He lived a pagan life, completely oblivious of Christianity, died, and is now being tortured for eternity in a lake of fire.
Reconcile me that
I don't believe that anyone passes from here to judgment without encountering the Gospel.
So, I'm curious, FrigidDev, are you a Christian? Do you attend a local church?
So, I'm curious, FrigidDev, are you a Christian? Do you attend a local church?
Because you do not understand the Holiness of God.
1. God wants all men to be saved:
1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2. Mankind reveals himself to men in 3 main ways
A. General Revelation
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Simply put, God reveals himself to mankind through creation, the creation around us testifies to the existence of a supreme being.
B. Revelation of Conscience
Romans 1:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
God reveals his righteous character through man's conscience, all people know murder is wrong, rape is wrong, stealing is wrong, etc.
C. Revelation of the Scripture and the Gospel
15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
So from this we can get an answer to your question:
God wants all men to be saved, he does not want any to die and go to hell, God must reveal himself to mankind through creation and conscience first, if a man will respond to this revelation, then God will reveal the Gospel message from the bible to them, and if they accept this and believe it, then they will be saved.
HOWEVER, if a person refuses to respond to the revelation of creation, For example they refuse to believe in any kind of God (Atheism), then God is under no obligation to allow them to hear the Gospel message, or if they refuse to listen that voice in their conscience telling them there is a God who they will be accountable to, then he is not obligated to allow them to hear the Gospel.
Basically if someone dies without hearing the Gospel message, it's because God knew they would not accept the message anyway.
Think about it this way, If you were a teacher and your students refused to allow you to teach them addition or subtraction, your not going to waste your time trying to teach them how to do algebra.
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
If someone dies and goes to hell, it's because they rejected God in some form, not because they didn't have a chance, God knows who will and would not accept the Gospel message, he is not obligated to give an opportunity to those who he knows wouldn't accept it anyway.
Uh, no. It is because they are sinners, and the wages of sin is death.