pictures of a brain with mental illness for fred

[Steadfast Fred]

So Fred, do you also believe that ADD and ADHD are just symptoms of sin in a child? Do you believe Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is just a "sin?"

ADHD is nothing more than a child being a child. OCD? People called that desires or lusts in Bible days.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

According to Fred Baughman, a retired child neurologist, and March of Dimes/National Foundation scholar, who testified in March 2006 at the US Food and Drug Administration:

''Nowhere in the brains or bodies of children said to have ADHD or any other psychiatric diagnosis has a disorder/disease been confirmed.''

Read more...

 

[annsni]

According to Fred Baughman, a retired child neurologist, and March of Dimes/National Foundation scholar, who testified in March 2006 at the US Food and Drug Administration:

''Nowhere in the brains or bodies of children said to have ADHD or any other psychiatric diagnosis has a disorder/disease been confirmed.''

Read more...

Well, you don't believe that there is any such thing anyway. Besides, I'm not going to listen to just one person because I know large studies show otherwise.

I have 4 children. One has ADD. Her brain functions totally differently than my others and she cannot stay focused easily. She's now 22 and has learned to manage this issue in her life but it took me homeschooling her for 7 years in order to do so.

But you say she has no ADD so I will believe you instead of her and tell her to get with the program.

 

[agedman]

ADHD is nothing more than a child being a child. OCD? People called that desires or lusts in Bible days.

Fred,

I regret to be so plainly spoken, but at this point it is quite evident.

You don't know what you are talking about.

ADHD is not just a child being a child, and any educator, medical doctor and parent with common sense knows that is an ignorant statement.

OCD is not desire and lust and again shows profound ignorance to even consider posting such.


John 9:1

And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, "Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?"

Jesus answered, "Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him."​

Certainly this person had a factual and "visually" conferrable disability.

He was "born that way" and it wasn't sin.

BOTH ADHD and OCD are recognized brain and cognitive problems. Just as the blind person, ADHD and OCD are a physical problem which under appropriate medication can be helped. Unlike the blind person, in that it is not on the outside or commonly seen ailment (such as the flu or cold), and so many like you dwell in ignorance and denial of the validity of the need for treatment.

ADHD and OCD are not "mental illness" such as schizophrenia or psychosis.


You most likely don't know that ADHD can only come from the FATHER. A mother may have it, but she doesn't transfer it to the child - only the father does through his genetic background. It can also skip a generation from grandfather to the grandchildren.

You probably also don't know that ADHD folks are also highly susceptible to addictive influences such as high risk taking, gambling, drugs, smoking, alcohol, sex, deviancy, ... when they find it gives them the sense of feeling normal.

You probably also don't know that the "negative self talk" of the ADHD child results in the child having unknowing self fulfilling inappropriate behaviors and latter as adult repeat offenders. When the ADHD child shows signs that they don't remember doing something wrong - they actually do not have that awareness. Joey skipping down the hall may be inappropriate in the circumstances, but Joey doesn't even comprehend that he isn't walking quickly. He is not liar, He is not deceitful - he is unaware.

You probably also don't know that bi-polar is a part of the ADHD problem because of the vast mood swings and negative self talk associated with the conditions.

You probably don't know that the medication given to ADHD and OCD folks will actually MAKE THE PROBLEM WORSE if they are NOT ADHD and OCD. Which is one way diagnosticians may use to determine in a child if the problem is a chemical deficit in the neurotransmitters or a parental/environmental problem.

You probably don't know that the typical ADHD child will sit in front of a computer game, captivated by all the stimulus for hours, yet unable to be attentive for five minutes when a parent is griping them out.

You probably don't know that ADHD occurs more often in higher intelligent children than in the lower groupings.

You probably don't know...

I think I'll stop -

Ignorance in your case is not bliss - but blush!

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Well, you don't believe that there is any such thing anyway. Besides, I'm not going to listen to just one person because I know large studies show otherwise.

I have 4 children. One has ADD. Her brain functions totally differently than my others and she cannot stay focused easily. She's now 22 and has learned to manage this issue in her life but it took me homeschooling her for 7 years in order to do so.

But you say she has no ADD so I will believe you instead of her and tell her to get with the program.

The author quotes several psychiatrists in his article.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

The ignorance is not on my behalf.

 

[agedman]

The ignorance is not on my behalf.

How would one even recognize their own ignorance if they were the one that is ignorant?

That is like someone in denial saying, "I'm not in denial."

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Or like someone in denial saying "mental illness is real."

 

[Steadfast Fred]

“Perhaps worst of all, these diagnoses almost inevitably lead to the prescription of psychiatric medication to you or your child. Psychiatric drugs are toxins to the brain; they work by disabling the brain.”

— Peter Breggin, Psychiatrist

 

[agedman]

The author quotes several psychiatrists in his article.

The article is also biased propaganda that makes little use of the full context in which the authorities are used in the quotes.

But such is the way that some would puff up their own understanding.

If you want a REAL scientifically validated with actual testing data, unbiased analysis... then try the link below.


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=adhd%20and%20prison&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CEoQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.medscape.org%2Fviewarticle%2F719862&ei=rQObT4OcJYac2QXBwsScDw&usg=AFQjCNEoTvXzr-Kl0huqGUspXvKXlpy3Qg&cad=rja

BTW, Knowing most do not have an account with medscape.org, I hope this article will show up when you click on the link. If not, do a google search using ADHD prison and crime as the key words and then scroll down to the medscape.org link.

 

[agedman]

“Perhaps worst of all, these diagnoses almost inevitably lead to the prescription of psychiatric medication to you or your child. Psychiatric drugs are toxins to the brain; they work by disabling the brain.”

— Peter Breggin, Psychiatrist

In Peter Breggin's article on his testimony before the House subcommittee he states

Children become diagnosed with ADHD when they are in conflict with the expectations or demands of parents and/or teachers. The ADHD diagnosis is simply a list of the behaviors that most commonly cause conflict or disturbance in classrooms, especially those that require a high degree of conformity.

By diagnosing the child with ADHD, blame for the conflict is placed on the child. Instead of examining the context of the child's life why the child is restless or disobedient in the classroom or home - the problem is attributed to the child's faulty brain.

Both the classroom and the family are exempt from criticism or from the need to improve, and instead the child is made the source of the problem. The medicating of the child then becomes a coercive response to conflict in which the weakest member of the conflict, the child, is drugged into a more compliant or submissive state. The production of drug-induced obsessive-compulsive disorder in the child especially fits the needs for compliance in regard to otherwise boring or distressing schoolwork.​

(Full article found here: http://www.breggin.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=200

So he recommends a more lively, free, and non-conformist environment.

Just what the military, home, school and church needs.

And of course just what the Lord Jesus expects from a believer.

He seems bent on blaming the home, the environment, the school (and by extension the church) and anything that would let the child self express.

Proverbs - a child left to their own self (expression) brings the parents shame.

Proverbs - even a child is known by their actions (doings).

Proverbs - train up the child... they won't depart from it.

 

[agedman]

Dr Breggin, MD has a problem with his own information.

Look at this article documenting some of the problems with Dr. Breggin's work and qualifications.

http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/breggin.html

I find this "bottom line" statement an interesting read.

"Peter R. Breggin , M.D., would like you to believe that his personal experience and judgment enable him to out-think and outperform the collective wisdom of the science-based mental health community. Some of the things he describes may reflect genuine problems. However, he is prone to exaggeration and has certainly failed to substantiate his ADHD-related criticisms. The Ritalin Fact Book should be classified as junk science." (emphasis underlines mine).​

 

[menageriekeeper]

You most likely don't know that ADHD can only come from the FATHER. A mother may have it, but she doesn't transfer it to the child - only the father does through his genetic background. It can also skip a generation from grandfather to the grandchildren.

Really? That is extremely interesting and I sure wish you'd provide a reference or a link. Whether Steadfast believes or not, I am ADD, not so much ADHD although I have my moments. Of course when I was a kid, there was no such diagnosis; I was just the flighty odd duck and that just seemed to be that. As I grew I learned coping mechanisms that suited. My ADD comes with dyslexia and a sensory defensiveness that drove my parents crazy and still affects every.single.choice I make, especially food and anything that touches me.

All that to say, I have son that is sooo much like me. He constantly makes noise (which I don't remember doing, but I do tend to sing alot), refuses to be still if he can be moving and can absolutely do the video game thing! But my son is even more like my father. Neither of them read. They are not dyslexic, they simply find no reason to read a book unless they need information from that source. And on specific subjects.

I've always blamed my father for my son's non-readership. He might be glad to know that its the other side of the family to blame lol, or I might enjoy a little more evidence that I was right! (whichever way it works out)

 

[Steadfast Fred]

The article is also biased propaganda that makes little use of the full context in which the authorities are used in the quotes.

But such is the way that some would puff up their own understanding.

If you want a REAL scientifically validated with actual testing data, unbiased analysis... then try the link below.


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=adhd%20and%20prison&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CEoQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.medscape.org%2Fviewarticle%2F719862&ei=rQObT4OcJYac2QXBwsScDw&usg=AFQjCNEoTvXzr-Kl0huqGUspXvKXlpy3Qg&cad=rja

BTW, Knowing most do not have an account with medscape.org, I hope this article will show up when you click on the link. If not, do a google search using ADHD prison and crime as the key words and then scroll down to the medscape.org link.

The article you linked to is biased propaganda. The author works off of the mistaken belief that ADHD is a real.

Funny how the DSM first tells the public that ADHD is a result of a chemical imbalance in the brain, then they change their teaching and say it is a result of mental illness, then they change once more to say it is a result of brain dysfunction.

They have no clue what causes their so called ADHD.

I have enough medical books, psychiatry books, and psychology books to see what the problem is.

The underlying problems are.. unwillingness to properly discipline a child by its parent (many times for fear of CPS stepping in), the child's diet, not enough sleep, etc.

The Bible tells parents how to raise a child, proper discipline for rebellious children, and when to discipline those children.

And altering their minds with drugs is not one of those ways.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Dr Patricia Quinn, who has more than 30 years experience, states that ADHD is not passed down from the father only. There are no genetic tests to determine ADHD in a child.

The fact is, the reason that there are no genetic tests to determine ADHD is because ADHD is a behaviorial problem, not a genetic one.

And behavior is determined by one's rearing, not a mysterious chemical imbalance. Nor is it caused by an alleged mental illness.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Oh noooo, Steadfast, it is NOT determined by one's "rearing". My parents were extremely strict. It didn't change the facts that my mind flits from one subject to the next with no warning and without my control. At any moment, unless funnily enough if I am reading (always) or writing(most of the time) my mind is busy running from one subject to the next.

I'm an adult now, if ADHD was a "discipline problem" you'd think I would be able to carry on a conversation with someone in a) a room with many conversations going on, b) a room with a tv or radio on, or c) a room with lots of movement. You'd be wrong. Any of these things will pull my attention away from the conversation. The tv especially is irresistable. And if it doesn't simply distract me then it triggers a "channel change". The subject will be x, but suddenly I'll be talking about z. It happens all the time. I have gotten better at staying on track as I've gotten older, but it has taken an enormous amount of practice through the years.

 

[agedman]

The article you linked to is biased propaganda. The author works off of the mistaken belief that ADHD is a real.

As if Dr. Breggin's is not??????

The author shows a side by side list of Breggin's thinking and what is reality.

You have chosen Breggin, but it doesn't equate that you have chosen what is either right or Biblical.

For you to post that it is the only correct view and all others are sinful is wrong.

The underlying problems are.. unwillingness to properly discipline a child by its parent (many times for fear of CPS stepping in), the child's diet, not enough sleep, etc.

The Bible tells parents how to raise a child, proper discipline for rebellious children, and when to discipline those children.

And altering their minds with drugs is not one of those ways.

No, those are not the "underlying problem..."

Certainly, there are some that need a dietary change, get more sleep, proper discipline, and even an at home daddy.

And, The Bible is certainly a guide to parenting, but it is not a "tell all" handbook, and, just like it doesn't give a cure for the common cold, the Scriptures expect the parents to utilize available information to make an informed decision in raising a child and conducting the home.

I find it somewhat disingenuous that people who would dispute medical science for helping a child who is deficient in the neurotransmitter chemicals are quick to take Tylenol for a headache or accepting of giving insulin to the diabetic.

There is no "science" for a headache. There is no visual proof for a headache. There is no brain change, blood or urine test for a headache. There is nothing but the verbal statement of the person and the relief provided by someone who developed a medication. The same with the person in diabetic decline and shock (with the exception of blood/urine tests that the average Joe only relies upon a developed meter to accurately display).

Who knows - in 100 years there may be a meter for the AD child and adult, too. 100 years ago - the diabetic died of questionable causes. 200 years ago - the person would be bled to death. 400 years ago, burning was the favored form of deliverance.

Your view of ADHD and OCD is just the same - but you would acknowledge a headache because you have had one.

Too bad you don't afford the same privilege to those parents, teachers, and other authorities when it comes to things you are displaying that you know very little about.

 

[annsni]

The underlying problems are.. unwillingness to properly discipline a child by its parent (many times for fear of CPS stepping in), the child's diet, not enough sleep, etc.

The Bible tells parents how to raise a child, proper discipline for rebellious children, and when to discipline those children.

And altering their minds with drugs is not one of those ways.

Yet I disciplined my daughter quite enough - and even pulled her out of school so I could better manage her full time, she ate beautifully and had plenty of sleep. Even now at 22, she must work at keeping her attention on most things unless it has to do with art or music. If there is music, it helps to keep her focused on other things - not the music.

Oh - and we never once gave her any medication. She was diagnosed with ADD and would have been classified in school but I would not medicate her unless it was making her own self impossible to control (she learned to control it as she grew). But she still, at 22, has those same difficulties in keeping her focus - but she just has learned how to manage it and work around her own mind/body function.

 

[annsni]

Dr Patricia Quinn, who has more than 30 years experience, states that ADHD is not passed down from the father only. There are no genetic tests to determine ADHD in a child.

The fact is, the reason that there are no genetic tests to determine ADHD is because ADHD is a behaviorial problem, not a genetic one.

And behavior is determined by one's rearing, not a mysterious chemical imbalance. Nor is it caused by an alleged mental illness.

Yes, there are no genetic tests right now to test for ADHD or ADD but neither is there one for MANY diseases including my PCOS. That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Honestly, I do find that those who refuse to believe that something exists that truly does often struggle with that very thing they fight against. I just wonder if that's the case here. I do see denial of clear truth - and oftentimes that is a mental issue all of it's own.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

I've already shown you that there are tests to determine PCOS, annsni. Not sure why you keep insisting there are not.

I have enough medical books that cover it to know there are indeed tests.