pictures of a brain with mental illness for fred

[agedman]

Dr Patricia Quinn, who has more than 30 years experience, states that ADHD is not passed down from the father only. There are no genetic tests to determine ADHD in a child.

The fact is, the reason that there are no genetic tests to determine ADHD is because ADHD is a behaviorial problem, not a genetic one.

And behavior is determined by one's rearing, not a mysterious chemical imbalance. Nor is it caused by an alleged mental illness.

They have only recently (within the last 10 years or so) mapped the genes and are still working on links to behavior, disease, and many other genetic related problems.

There is no credible evidence that all manners of information will not be linked to gene mapping in the next decade or more.

To consider such a claim at this time is highly speculative at best and could be liable for rebuke by future findings. Dr. Quin has no scientific backing for such a statement. The absence of a genetic marker at this time does not conclude that one is yet to be discovered.

I admit that some in mapping family history will find the father - to child link not to their liking. However, when family history is traced to grand parents and further, anecdotal evidence can be found. I do not care nor have the time to dig through my files for actual documentation.

But it is a rare parent who has not heard, "(child's name) is just like uncle Fred." Or, who hasn't heard (or used), "My dad wasn't good in (subject) either."

If such has been stated from the time of Adam (I imagine Eve saying it about Cain) then what silliness is purported that a person does not inherit parental characteristics of temperament and physiological matters.

 

[annsni]

I've already shown you that there are tests to determine PCOS, annsni. Not sure why you keep insisting there are not.

I have enough medical books that cover it to know there are indeed tests.

Not one of them is a definitive test, is there?

But we were speaking of a genetic test, I believe. That was YOUR qualifier.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Apples and oranges, annsni.

You are trying to liken a fabricated illness to a real one.

 

[Arbo]

OCD? People called that desires or lusts in Bible days.

And you've gleaned that from where?

I don't think you know what you're talking about regarding this. Please explain how "desires and lusts" have anything to do with fixations on neatness, germs, light switches, et al.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

The Greek word for lust, epithumeo, means to set the heart upon.

That is exactly what happens when one is obsessed with something... they set their heart upon that object.

 

[Arbo]

The Greek word for lust, epithumeo, means to set the heart upon.

That is exactly what happens when one is obsessed with something... they set their heart upon that object.

So you are saying if someone has a difficulty, say, with believing a light switch is off and keeps cycling it to be sure it's truly off; it is akin to sin? Or repetetive hand washing because they need to be certain that all the germs are cleansed? Or any number of things that have nothing to do with what is commonly referred to as lust?

 

[padredurand]

So you are saying if someone has a difficulty, say, with believing a light switch is off and keeps cycling it to be sure it's truly off; it is akin to sin? Or repetetive hand washing because they need to be certain that all the germs are cleansed? Or any number of things that have nothing to do with what is commonly referred to as lust?

Spare yourself Arbo. :thumbs:

 

[Arbo]

Spare yourself Arbo. :thumbs:

Yeah, you're probably right.

 

[fortytworc]

A person who is sinning and knows that they are sinning and doesn't give a hoot isn't under the influence of an illness. They are under the influence of sin and they need to repent.

A genuine illness - even something such as PMS (which is not an illness, but a symptom) - can overtake you without you knowing it. Not all women have PMS. I do. Sometimes, I have lost my temper and am not even aware of it until someone's eyes widen or someone says "Are you angry?" And sometimes I feel so angry and want to scream and I AM aware of it and have to work so hard to fight it. I have to literally clamp my jaws shut and force a smile. It isn't easy. I do not have an illness, but I understand - granted to a minor degree - how people diagnosed with a mental illness suffer in trying to maintain control. I've seen these bi-polar and depressed people behave irrationally and it's obvious to me that they are not even aware of it. Sometimes they are and I've watched them struggle.

Poor behavior on the part of someone with a diagnosed illness is sometimes not noticed by the person. That's why they are classified as ill.

As a side note - if you are a husband with a wife who suffers from extreme PMS and you feel like sometimes she is taking it out on you - think about this. She really is fighting it as best she can and maybe a delivery man comes to the door and she is very pleasant or your mother calls and she is very pleasant and then she turns around the next minute and bites your head off - please have sympathy for her. For many wives who suffer with extreme PMS - they find solace in their relationship with you and unfortunately that means that they feel less on their guard around you and perhaps they lessen their "fight" with their emotions around you and lose it more often with you.

Talk to her when she's not having these symptoms and tell you how it makes you feel. Tell her, "Baby, you remember a couple of week ago when you said .....? Can we talk about that." Tell you that you feel like she's more snappy with you and ask her what you can do next time to help her get through those days. Make a plan if you have. A code word or something to let her know when she's crossed the line. Granted, if she's in the middle of a rant, she isn't going to care about that code word and might even have a "code word" for you, but at least a plan could be made and perhaps it might work.

Trust me. Sometimes we are aware of it and we apologize and fight it. And literally, sometimes, those of us with the extreme symptoms are oblivious to how we affect others and need to be told.

And sometimes - well, we just need hug.

And sometimes - we just need a big old chunk of chocolate.

And we really are sorry when we snap. And we hate it in ourselves.

There is an old episode of "Everybody Loves Raymond " in which Debra and Raymond go through much of what you just described. Being a sit-com it is all done with humor.

 

[fortytworc]

Dr Patricia Quinn, who has more than 30 years experience, states that ADHD is not passed down from the father only. There are no genetic tests to determine ADHD in a child.

The fact is, the reason that there are no genetic tests to determine ADHD is because ADHD is a behaviorial problem, not a genetic one.

And behavior is determined by one's rearing, not a mysterious chemical imbalance. Nor is it caused by an alleged mental illness.

http://www.addvance.com/help/parents/medication.html
An article by Patricia Quinn, M.D. Just a couple of quotes:"Over the last decade, many advances have been made in the delivery of the medications to treat AD/HD in children and adults. As a result, several new medications have been approved that make the treatment of AD/HD both easier and more effective."
"AD/HD have been shown to affect all aspects of a person’s daily functioning including job and academic performance, social/romantic relationships, and self-esteem."
It appears that even if Dr. Quinn does not see AD/HD as a genetic problem she definitely sees it as an organic Physical problem having symptoms and actual, noticeable, detrimental effects on ones life, and it responds to medications. She evidently disagrees with you.

 

[fortytworc]

The Greek word for lust, epithumeo, means to set the heart upon.

That is exactly what happens when one is obsessed with something... they set their heart upon that object.

- Original: ἐπιθυμέω
- Transliteration: Epithumeo
- Phonetic: ep-ee-thoo-meh'-o
- Definition:
1. to turn upon a thing
2. to have a desire for, long for, to desire
3. to lust after, covet
a. of those who seek things forbidden
Someone with OCD actually desires to STOP the actions, thoughts etc. If there is any "lust" related to their OCD it would be to covet a cessation of their compulsion.

 

[fortytworc]

ADHD is nothing more than a child being a child. OCD? People called that desires or lusts in Bible days.

More advice from the ADDvance web site founded by Dr. Quinn and Dr.Kathleen Nadeau, Ph.D.,
http://www.addvance.com/add_friendly/working_with.html



Work with your ADD (ADHD), not against it!

"Many people do battle with their ADD (ADHD), trying to beat it. The fact is, this approach is exhausting and often defeating. It doesn't work very well or feel very good to spend your life trying to not be yourself."
"Shoulds" and "oughts" rarely motivate adults with ADD (ADHD) in the long run."

 

[fortytworc]

As I have said, as soon as someone can show me a photograph of a mind, I will change my perspective.

My medical books show every part of the human body, including every area of the human brain. I have not found one picture of a mind any any of my books.

If you can find a picture of a mind, perhaps you can submit it to the AMA and be famous for being the first one to show the world what a mind looks like.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/medical/mind

Definition of MIND
1
: the element or complex of elements in an individual that feels, perceives, thinks, wills, and especially reasons
2
: the conscious mental events and capabilities in an organism
3
: the organized conscious and unconscious adaptive mental activity of an organism

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mind
noun
1.
(in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.: the processes of the human mind.
2.
Psychology . the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.
3.
intellect or understanding, as distinguished from the faculties of feeling and willing; intelligence.
4.
a particular instance of the intellect or intelligence, as in a person.
5.
a person considered with reference to intellectual power: the greatest minds of the twentieth century.

http://www.mind.org.uk/

Defining Mind is a task that still eludes some of the best "minds" on the Earth. I will not try to argue for any definition nor try to show a link between "Brain" and "Mind"(I do recommend http://www.mind.org.uk/ I would just say that "A skunk by any other name has the same stink." (My Dad) Whether Brain, or Mind I am just glad that all the various sciences have not waited for all of the information from all of the religious, philosophical, metaphysical, governmental, etc. etc. groups to come in before researching and developing various medications, procedures, and approaches involved with what we use in trying to live good, quality lives. We could still be drilling holes in peoples' heads to let demons out, and killing patients in our attempts to get all that bad blood out.
Read some of Depack Chopra's stuff if you really want to learn nothing on this subject

 

[Steadfast Fred]

The brain is material (can be taken out of the skull after death, or even operated on during life)

The mind is immaterial. (one can dissect the brain, taking every last cell of it and laying them out on the ground and still not be able to find the mind)

 

[seekingthetruth]

The brain is material (can be taken out of the skull after death, or even operated on during life)

The mind is immaterial. (one can dissect the brain, taking every last cell of it and laying them out on the ground and still not be able to find the mind)

Yes, Fred, but the brain controls the mind. If the brain doesnt function properly then the mind is out of control.

John

PS. I am so glad you are normal and dont suffer from mental disabilities. That would destroy your ego. ( which btw, is a product of your mind)

 

[padredurand]

The brain is material (can be taken out of the skull after death, or even operated on during life)

The mind is immaterial. (one can dissect the brain, taking every last cell of it and laying them out on the ground and still not be able to find the mind)

You're wrong. You would find:
Small Molecule Neurotransmitter Substances

Acetylcholine (ACh)Dopamine (DA)Norepinephrine (NE)Serotonin (5-HT)HistamineEpinephrine
Amino Acids

Gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA)GlycineGlutamateAspartate
Neuroactive Peptides - partial list only!

bradykinin beta-endorphin bombesin calcitonin cholecystokin inenkephalin dynorphin insulin gastrin substance P neurotensin glucagon secretin somatostatin motilin vasopressin oxytocin prolactin thyrotropin angiotensin II sleep peptides galanin neuropeptide Y thyrotropin-releasing hormone gonadotropnin-releasing hormone growth hormone-releasing hormone luteinizing hormone vasoactive intestinal peptide....
Soluble Gases

Nitric Oxide (NO)Carbon Monoxide

That's just the some of the neurotransmitters. Here's a site called Neurotranmission for Kids. It does a good job of explaining the chemical process inside the brain that produces, processes and stores thought, emotion, pain, mood, etc.

I don't get the great fear you have of science. God made us as very complex beings. It is not a sin to quit the Flat Earth Society and appreciate how wonderfully and fearfully we are made.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

I have no fear of science.

Tell you what, padre. Go down to your local hospital and ask a doctor to show you a mind.

Let me know the results.

 

[seekingthetruth]

I have no fear of science.

Tell you what, padre. Go down to your local hospital and ask a doctor to show you a mind.

Let me know the results.

I can't see air or electricity either...but they exist.

John

 

[Gina B]

Hey Fred.....looks like you have
Oppositional Defiant Disorder

Coffee just went up my nose! That hurt. Thank you.

Hope it didn't reach my brain.

 

[markwaltermd]

Incredible!

...that this thread has continued for more than one page.

This isn't about convincing one person of the fact of mental illness. By page two, it's more about gratifying someone who appears to relish negative attention.

I would worry that permitting an argument about the very existence of mental illness would go a long way in discrediting the church, in the eyes of peripheral non-believers.

Some of the statements here -- specifically those by one poster -- reflect a spirit of contention and a lack of compassion. This is a sad mistreatment of our brothers and sisters whose lives have been affected by mental illness.