1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Pink...the Atonement, 1 Jn2:2

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Iconoclast, Mar 8, 2018.

Top Posters
Page 6 of 7
  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    A.W. Pink – 1 John 2:2 [from The Sovereignty of God] – The Confessing Baptist
     
    #101 Iconoclast, Mar 12, 2018
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    The Atonement by Arthur W. Pink
    It is unspeakably sad that the atoning death of the Lord Jesus Christ-the most wonderful event that has ever happened or will happen-should have been made the occasion of contention and controversy. That it has been so, affords an awful example of human depravity. The more so, that throughout the centuries of this Christian era, some of the hottest theological battles have been waged over the vital truth of the Atonement.

    Speaking generally, only two views or interpretations of the Cross have received much favor among the professed people of God: the one which affirmed that the Atonement was effected to make certain the salvation of all who believe; the other which supposed that atonement was made in order to make possible the salvation of all men. The former is the strict Calvinist view; the latter, the Arminian. Even here, the difference was not merely one of terms, but of truth over against error. The one is definite and explicit; the other indefinite and intangible. The one affirms an Atonement which actually atones (i. e. fully satisfied God for those on whose behalf it was made); the other predicates an Atonement which was a sorry failure, inasmuch as the majority of those on whose behalf it was supposed to be offered, perish notwithstanding. The logical and inevitable corollary of the one is a satisfied, because triumphant Savior; the other (if true) would lead, unavoidably, to a disappointed, because defeated Savior. The former interpretation was taught by such men as Wickcliff, Calvin, Latimer, Tyndale, Bunyan, Owen, Dodderidge, Jonathan Edwards, Toplady, Whitefield, Spurgeon, etc. The latter by men who, as theologians, were not worthy to unloose their shoes.

    Of late, a new theory has been propounded to the Christian public, a theory which approximates perilously near that of the Universalists. Erroneously based upon a few texts whose scope is confined to the people of God, the view which is now rapidly gaining favor in circles which are regarded as orthodox, is to the effect that, at the Cross, the sin question was fully and finally settled. We are told, and told by men who are looked up to by many as the champions of orthodoxy, that all the sins of all men were laid upon the crucified Christ. It is boldly affirmed that at the Cross the Lamb of God did as much for those who would not believe, as He did for those who should believe on Him. It is dogmatically announced that the only grievance which God now has against any man, is his refusal to believe in the Savior. It is said that the single issue between God and the world, is not the sin question, but the Son question.

    We have said that this theory of the Atonement is a new one, and new it surely is. So far as the writer is aware, it was never propounded, at least in orthodox circles, till within the last two or three decades. It appears to be another product of this twentieth century, and like most if not all other of them, it is far inferior to what went before. Yet, strange to say, an appeal is made to the Holy Scriptures in support of it. But in one way we are thankful for this, inasmuch as the Word of God supplies us with an infallible rule by which we may measure it. We shall, therefore, examine this strange and novel theory in the light of Holy Writ, and doing this, it will not be difficult to show how thoroughly untenable and fallacious it is.
     
    #102 Iconoclast, Mar 12, 2018
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    BobRyan said: ↑
    God is offended and insulted by sin.. and rebellion.

    AND God is the one tormented and tortured in the "Atoning Sacrifice".

    Thanks for quoting my post sequence above.

    Did you want to make a comment?

    I notice than in your link -- Pink seems to think that "universalism" is the only other thing he can think of for 1 John 2:2 -- other than trying to eisegete Calvinisms limited atoning sacrifice into 1 John 2:2
     
    #103 BobRyan, Mar 12, 2018
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    The text does not say "because He is the atoning sacrifice for the whole world - the whole world is going to heaven"

    Neither is that the Arminian argument for 1 John 2:2

    - the much imagined false-alternative of Pink is a flawed argument.
     
    #104 BobRyan, Mar 12, 2018
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jesus stated that the plan was completed, that the Sacrifice of the Cross made it "paid in full", correct?
     
    #105 Yeshua1, Mar 12, 2018
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No, rather that how EW viewed them was not scriptural!
     
    #106 Yeshua1, Mar 12, 2018
  7. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Messages:
    3,357
    Likes Received:
    243
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Are you referencing 1 John 3:16 or John 3:16? The former references Jesus laying down of His life, which does reference His atoning work. If that is the case (you're referencing 1 John 3), what is it that brings atonement? His death, for sure, is involved, but what does that death do for the Father? How does Jesus' death turn God's wrath away from us?

    The Archangel
     
    #107 The Archangel, Mar 12, 2018
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Jesus' death satisfies the debt that is demanded by the Law of God for sin. God is tortured "for us"... on our behalf.
     
    #108 BobRyan, Mar 16, 2018
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian

    How would you even know??
    Wasn't it you who saw a quote of Matthew 18 and Romans 11 and said it was "Ellen White" even though the reference and the text were right there??
     
    #109 BobRyan, Mar 16, 2018
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian

    Jesus said 'it is finished' --

    1 John 2:2 says the "Atoning sacrifice" for OUR sins and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the whole world - was completed at the cross.

    And Paul says in Hebrew 8:1 "The MAIN POINT is this..."

    Details matter.
     
    #110 BobRyan, Mar 16, 2018
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Big problem is that you read it thru the glasses of EW, not from the view of the Holy Spirit!
     
    #111 Yeshua1, Mar 17, 2018
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Did Jesus finish the salvation, or does he still need the Investigative Judgement still?
     
    #112 Yeshua1, Mar 17, 2018
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    There is no "finish the salvation" text ... you are merely "quoting you"...

    Quote something from the actual Bible that would be appropriate to say "yes" to
     
    #113 BobRyan, Mar 18, 2018
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Your spells of "creative writing" not the compelling argument to someone who differs with your bias - that you seemed to have imagined to yourself. :)

    (You probably already knew that.. but I just wanted to state the obvious)
     
    #114 BobRyan, Mar 18, 2018
  15. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    5,149
    Likes Received:
    293
    OP,

    The points made don't take into a account the man who won't forgive himself. The whole world and God can forgive you. But if you don't forgive yourself you are stuck.
     
    #115 utilyan, Mar 19, 2018
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    When Jesus died, were all of my sins paid in full?
     
    #116 Yeshua1, Mar 19, 2018
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Ellen white taught another Gospel, so she did not hear from Jesus Christ!
     
    #117 Yeshua1, Mar 19, 2018
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    You are free to imagine that and engage in your creative writing... I have always said that.

    I prefer actual Bible discussions.
     
    #118 BobRyan, Mar 19, 2018
  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Who do you think got paid? Jesus?

    Did Jesus "pay himself" by "getting himself tortured" in your view?

    God defines atonement in His own "Day of Atonement" model found in Leviticus 16 where the chapter does not end with the slaying of the "Sin offering". Did you suppose that this is where God's chapter on that topic ended?

    Do you know why Paul says "The MAIN POINT is this" in Hebrews 8:1 speaking of the High Priestly role of Christ after His resurrection??
     
    #119 BobRyan, Mar 19, 2018
  20. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    5,149
    Likes Received:
    293
    Got to remember Bob they only think God is GOOD Legally. Not actually. God is about power and paying up.

    God has flipped his lid in righteous anger, God wants to torture everyone, Everyone deserves hell. But instead he is going to torture Jesus and let all his wrath out on him.
     
    #120 utilyan, Mar 20, 2018
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 6 of 7
Loading...