ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
I may be late on this, but saw this today. If it has been shared before, sorry...but it does bear worth repeating.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdnQAB3cJec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdnQAB3cJec
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Piper to Obama
- Thread starter ReformedBaptist
- Start date
Well, aside from the fact that (to me) his manner of speach is annoying, I agree with his sentiments about abortion. It is an abomination. Why then did he weep for joy when Obama was inaugurated?
The guy has some strange views on other things, but on abortion he's spot on.
The guy has some strange views on other things, but on abortion he's spot on.
Because this country has come so far against bigotry and hatred that we now have our first African American president. That even though he stands against much of what we stand for as Christians, it was a historic moment that was unimaginable 100 years ago. THAT is a reason to weep for joy.
No, sorry, it isn't. A man was elected to the highest office in this country. He advocates the murder of children. To be joyous about his election is not Christian. Would Piper have also been joyous is Obama was a murderer of adults? I don't care what color the man is, he supports murdering children. It isn't a time to be joyous.
ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
Does man appoint leaders/kings/presidents or does God?
God gives free will and everything works together for His Glory. He has a master plan and allows bad things to happen for reasons beyond my comprehension.
All that doesn't mean that I should be joyous when a murderer is elected as President. I'm also not joyous when I hear another news story about a gang murder.
I am thankful and joyous everyday that God is in control.
Here's my question: does God appoint specific leaders, or leadership?
ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
Both. Government is the creation of God and He chooses who will rule.
So God chose Hitler? Sorry...no He didn't. God allowed Hitler to come to power, but God did not place him there. The depravity of man placed him there.
Romans 13 -
"1Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed."
Daniel 2:21
"He changes times and seasons;
he removes kings and sets up kings;
he gives wisdom to the wise
and knowledge to those who have understanding;"
"1Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed."
Daniel 2:21
"He changes times and seasons;
he removes kings and sets up kings;
he gives wisdom to the wise
and knowledge to those who have understanding;"
ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
Then in your worldview God is not sovereign.
Then by your line of thinking, since God is a pupper master and control every aspect of everything, God put the evil in Hitler as well as putting Hitler in power.
No, sorry, my God is not a pupper master. He allows us free will to make our own choices. My God didn't place Hitler in power....he allowed it, but that's a whole different ball of wax.
ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
Matt,
it is a slippery slope to play the "my god, your god" argument. And pretty much a poor way to have a discussion. It shows more emotion than thinking.
I believe the correct wording would be "puppet master" which in the way your using it to what I am speaking of is a strawman. It simply exists in your mind.
You would have to show how those of us who to the absolute sovereignty of God teach such a thing. We do not. Therefore, you can put down the strawmman all you want...I didn't set it up. lol
-RB
So if God has decreed that the "0" be president, I will needs be forgiven for not voting for him-- right?
Methinks there are too many claims that God "is, did, will, won't, can, can't" etc., etc., when our knowledge of Him is so finite; and even that little bit is warped by our own biases.
God IS sovereign, and therefore it is beyond our understanding when He does/doesn't do anything. The book of Job illustrates this very well.
If you want to claim everything is God's doing just because of His sovereignty, then be intellectually honest and quit making any decisions and let His sovereignty rule. Don't take precautions driving, taking medicines (oops not necessary - if God wants you well, He'll heal you) etc, etc, etc.
FTR I agree with Matt - "Then by your line of thinking, since God is a pupper master and control every aspect of everything, God put the evil in Hitler as well as putting Hitler in power.
No, sorry, my God is not a pupper master. He allows us free will to make our own choices. My God didn't place Hitler in power....he allowed it, but that's a whole different ball of wax. "
This is a dangerous path and only an idiot would attempt to relegate/limit God to what his own mind can conceive.
Methinks there are too many claims that God "is, did, will, won't, can, can't" etc., etc., when our knowledge of Him is so finite; and even that little bit is warped by our own biases.
God IS sovereign, and therefore it is beyond our understanding when He does/doesn't do anything. The book of Job illustrates this very well.
If you want to claim everything is God's doing just because of His sovereignty, then be intellectually honest and quit making any decisions and let His sovereignty rule. Don't take precautions driving, taking medicines (oops not necessary - if God wants you well, He'll heal you) etc, etc, etc.
FTR I agree with Matt - "Then by your line of thinking, since God is a pupper master and control every aspect of everything, God put the evil in Hitler as well as putting Hitler in power.
No, sorry, my God is not a pupper master. He allows us free will to make our own choices. My God didn't place Hitler in power....he allowed it, but that's a whole different ball of wax. "
This is a dangerous path and only an idiot would attempt to relegate/limit God to what his own mind can conceive.
Give me a break...when you say "some of us" you are including yourself. Don't mince words.
I would agree with this statement.
"Us" would include the speaker.
To exclude the speaker one would say "them".
Curious, how did the serpent get in the garden?
I forget who, but there was somewhere I read Hitler and the Holocaust were a fulfillment of prophesy toward the Jews. If that is true, then your above statement would be accurate. Any thought's on that?
Unique among all nations, past and present, the United States of America is a nation established, under God, where the People elect their leadership for representation while said leaders are in power. They are not kings who are authorities unto themselves only answerable to God but servants to accomplish the will of the people, who has entrusted them to make judgments and laws that will not infringe upon their Liberty.
The present generation has become so apathetic that the will of the people has become clouded. As a result the people are getting the leaders we deserve. As the people of this nation goes, so too go our leaders. The people are in debt, so is the nation's government. The people are not living their lives unto a Sovereign God, so too are our judgments passed that do not respect a living God.
Until the people of this great nation realize that the problem is us, we will never turn the corner and set this nation right. We the People are answerable to the direction this nation is taking. And until they take the right to elect and change our nation every 2, 4 and 6 years, away from us we are the ones that answer to God whom we choose to represent us. When that right is removed and the ruler of the US is dictator or king then God can deal with him.
Marcia
Active Member
God allows people to be president or things to happen for his own purposes. This does not mean we need forgivness if we did not vote for Obama!
Maybe God did want O to be president for his purposes. He used Cyrus, He used Nebuchadnezzar, he used Pharaoh in Egypt, he used Joseph's brothers' wicked plans against Joseph, etc., etc. God used people or nations to punish or bring judgment in the OT, though that is clearly stated in the OT, so I don't think we can discern when that is happening now.
We don't know what God is doing. The point is to trust God and know nothing thwarts His will.
Maybe God did want O to be president for his purposes. He used Cyrus, He used Nebuchadnezzar, he used Pharaoh in Egypt, he used Joseph's brothers' wicked plans against Joseph, etc., etc. God used people or nations to punish or bring judgment in the OT, though that is clearly stated in the OT, so I don't think we can discern when that is happening now.
We don't know what God is doing. The point is to trust God and know nothing thwarts His will.