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Please answer this...

M

MB

Well-Known Member
convicted1 said:
The wages of sin is death. How can someone sinless die? Even Jesus had to become sin to die. When He partook of that bitter cup, He took sin upon Himself.
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So are you saying that a baby who hasn't taken it's first breath yet has sinned if it dies during birth?
MB
 
The Archangel

The Archangel

Well-Known Member
salzer mtn said:
If man is born without the sin nature then it stands to reason someone other than Christ has lived a long life and died without sinning.
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It also causes us to ask: Why do babies die?

If they haven't sinned, and the wages of sin is death..... Why does anyone who hasn't yet sinned die?

The Archangel
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
The Archangel said:
It also causes us to ask: Why do babies die?

If they haven't sinned, and the wages of sin is death..... Why does anyone who hasn't yet sinned die?

The Archangel
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Why does anything die? How did a sinless Christ die? Why do we still die if we are in Christ? Obviously guilt is not a prerequisite to death.
 
I

Inspector Javert

Active Member
The Archangel said:
It also causes us to ask: Why do babies die?
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Because all men...
all of creation....
all animals....
even the stars are effected by the curse.

Adam brought to creation the curse, and the curse is death. The curse is the law of entropy. The simple fact is the entire Universe will in fact slowly die a heat-death which is unavoidable. It will eventually burn out and grow cold and all things including celestial bodies will die. There is only so much energy and it is being used. No more is being created.

Death is the curse Adam brought upon all creation
Not guilt.
If they haven't sinned, and the wages of sin is death..... Why does anyone who hasn't yet sinned die?
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Even things not capable of sin die.
That's because the curse upon all of creation is death.

Adam brought that curse to all of creation.

What he didn't do, is transfer guilt to his posterity through his loins.
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The Archangel

The Archangel

Well-Known Member
Inspector Javert said:
Because all men...
all of creation....
all animals....
even the stars are effected by the curse.

Adam brought to creation the curse, and the curse is death. The curse is the law of entropy. The simple fact is the entire Universe will in fact slowly die a heat-death which is unavoidable. It will eventually burn out and grow cold and all things including celestial bodies will die. There is only so much energy and it is being used. No more is being created.

Death is the curse Adam brought upon all creation
Not guilt.

Even things not capable of sin die.
That's because the curse upon all of creation is death.

Adam brought that curse to all of creation.

What he didn't do, is transfer guilt to his posterity through his loins.
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And yet Romans 5:12-14 says that people died because of Adam when there was no Law and, therefore, sin was not counted...

If Adam's sin isn't "passed" to his progeny, Christ's righteousness isn't passed to His people.

The Archangel
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C

convicted1

Guest
MB said:
So are you saying that a baby who hasn't taken it's first breath yet has sinned if it dies during birth?
MB
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Christ came to seek and save that which was lost(Luke 19:10)...
He shall save His people from their sins(Matthew 1:21)...
Christ came into this world to save sinners(1 Timothy 1:15)...


There is not going to be one of Adam's progeny that gets through those pearly gates without the shed blood of Christ atoning for them. If babies die sinless, then Christ didn't die for them. If they are sinless, they go to heaven without the blood.
 
C

convicted1

Guest
Inspector Javert said:
Because all men...
all of creation....
all animals....
even the stars are effected by the curse.

Adam brought to creation the curse, and the curse is death. The curse is the law of entropy. The simple fact is the entire Universe will in fact slowly die a heat-death which is unavoidable. It will eventually burn out and grow cold and all things including celestial bodies will die. There is only so much energy and it is being used. No more is being created.

Death is the curse Adam brought upon all creation
Not guilt.

Even things not capable of sin die.
That's because the curse upon all of creation is death.

Adam brought that curse to all of creation.

What he didn't do, is transfer guilt to his posterity through his loins.
Click to expand...

I keep reading about the curse being passed down...which is true. Yet, what brought the curse upon all men? Sin. How is it that we get the curse, and not the sin, seeing the curse was via sin?
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The Archangel said:
Inspector Javert said:
And yet Romans 5:12-14 says that people died because of Adam when there was no Law and, therefore, sin was not counted...

If Adam's sin isn't "passed" to his progeny, Christ's righteousness isn't passed to His people.

The Archangel
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That is the point of pauline Justification, for just as we are all found in Adam as sinners, those of us now saved are found in Christ...

If no personal guilt/sin from adam, how can we then receive justification in a personal sense from jesus?
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M

MB

Well-Known Member
The Archangel said:
It also causes us to ask: Why do babies die?

If they haven't sinned, and the wages of sin is death..... Why does anyone who hasn't yet sinned die?

The Archangel
Click to expand...

We have all been appointed to die once physically sinner or not. There is a second death for the sinner which is eternal separation from God.
MB
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
convicted1 said:
Christ came to seek and save that which was lost(Luke 19:10)...
He shall save His people from their sins(Matthew 1:21)...
Christ came into this world to save sinners(1 Timothy 1:15)...


There is not going to be one of Adam's progeny that gets through those pearly gates without the shed blood of Christ atoning for them. If babies die sinless, then Christ didn't die for them. If they are sinless, they go to heaven without the blood.
Click to expand...
Thats wrong as His death was a revision of the curse. His death and resurrection undid what Adam did.
 
C

convicted1

Guest
MB said:
We have all been appointed to die once physically sinner or not. There is a second death for the sinner which is eternal separation from God.
MB
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And what, pray tell, caused us to be appointed to die? The curse? What caused the curse to be placed upon us? Adam's sin. How can we get the curse...which was caused by Adam's guilt...and not get the sin...the very thing that caused us to be cursed?
 
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