To better understand your thinking, would you provide Scriptural References that you think speak to each of your points? I am especially interested in your reasoning behind number three.
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Please pray for me to receive the gift of tongues
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To better understand your thinking, would you provide Scriptural References that you think speak to each of your points? I am especially interested in your reasoning behind number three.
evenifigoalone
Well-Known Member
As soon as I saw this topic was on a baptist forum I was like yup, 
lol
lolWrong, it's completely useless for others!
1 Corinthians 14:4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.
Dude, I gonna give u 10 seconds to pray for me to have this gift and If I dont receive it after that i'll do that... So I start count down.... 10 ... 9 ...
If it is by the power of demons how do you explain this?
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance. Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. ...
And this?
Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit. Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; ...
So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.
And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; <<< Will satan cast out satan? Truly I say to TCassidy, kingdom divided against itself cannot stand.
You mean that God is no longer able to give these gifts? How come then that some Christians, who have nothing to do with demons or occult still have those?
For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful.
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
Boy am I dumb, I let myself get dragged into a 'can of worms' debate.
Happy Christmas to all.
Happy Christmas to all.
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
Yeah you too. Merry Christmas to you and yours.
But then look down in verse 22. It IS for others. "Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers."
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
Have you read the rest of the above passage?
You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures. James 4:3
Over the years, I have visited several Pentecostal churches. NEVER ONCE, have I seen tongues preformed according the rules in I Corinthians.
Further, many Pentecostals, I have spoken too- were NOT even aware of those rules.
Are you?
That is the larger issue. It is less standing on the conclusion that tongues have ceased than it is standing on Scripture and realizing what we are talking about here is not the biblical use of tongues.
That's the point! It is selfish! Self-centered. Sinful.
Duh! The gift of speaking in foreign languages the disciples had not learned was still being given. It stopped being given when Paul wrote 1 Corinthians.
Exactly. Those who ALREADY had the gift were allowed to continue to use it to witness to the lost but as they grew old and died the gift died with them.
Exactly! When you deny the bible and stand with Satan you will not stand for long. The Evil One will bring you down.
God is not a liar. When His word says tongues have ceased it means tongues have ceased.
Three types of tongues:
1. Demonic.
2. Faked by selfish "look at me" people.
3. Mental illness (called glossilalia).
Yep. Tongues is unfruitful. Paul told the church at Corinth, that came behind in no gift, that they were carnal, not spiritual.
Well at least you are honest about wanting it for completly selfish reasons which is completely wrong. You have missed the entire point Paul was making in 1 Cor. 12, 13, and 14. All the spiritual gifts are about building the church up in Love, not for building oneself up and that was the problem with how the Corinthians were using tongues then and its the problem with "tongues" now.
I dont see it that way.
With regard to the former statement, ‘Whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease,’ that has been misunderstood as if it amounted to a declaration that the miraculous gifts in the early Church were intended to be of brief duration. However true that may be, it is not what Paul means here. The cessation to which he refers is their cessation in the light of the perfect Future.
1. (8-10) Love will outlive all the gifts.
Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
a. Love never fails: Paul is addressing the over-emphasis the Corinthian Christians had on the gifts of the Holy Spirit. He shows they should emphasize love more than the gifts, because the gifts are temporary "containers" of God's work; love is the work itself.
b. Therefore, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are appropriate for the present time, but they are not permanent. They are imperfect gifts for an imperfect time.
c. That which is perfect: Paul says when that which is perfect has come, then the gifts will be "discontinued." But what is that which is perfect? Though some who believe the miraculous gifts ceased with the apostles say it refers to the completion of the New Testament, they are wrong. Virtually all commentators are agreed that which is perfect is when we are in the eternal presence of the Perfect One, when we are with the Lord forever either through the return of Christ or graduation to the eternal.
i. The Greek word for perfect is telos. Considering the way the New Testament uses telos in other passages, it certainly seems to be speaking about the coming of Jesus (1 Corinthians 1:8; 15:24; James 5:11; Revelation 20:5, 7; 21:6; 22:13).
d. Many who believe the miraculous gifts ended with the apostles (such as John MacArthur) claim since the verb will cease is not in the passive, but in the middle voice, it could be translated, tongues will stop by themselves. Their analysis sounds scholarly, but is disregarded by virtually all Greek scholars.
i. Even if this translation is correct, it does nothing to suggest when tongues will cease. John MacArthur claims, "tongues ceased in the apostolic age and that when they stopped, they stopped for good." But this passage doesn't tell us "tongues will stop by themselves," and it tells us tongues will cease only when that which is perfect has come.
ii. John Calvin was one who thought the will cease spoke of the eternal state. "But when will that perfection come? It begins, indeed, at death, because then we put off many weaknesses along with the body." (Calvin)
e. In his use of will fail and will cease and will vanish away, Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, is not trying to say that prophecies, tongues, and knowledge have different fates. He is simply writing well, saying the same thing in three different ways. They will end, but love never fails.
2. not what I would do....
1. Well, in cause you are right about tongues have ceased and and my interpretation is wrong then sorry but I got to change to source of this gift ....
It depends how you look at it. I agree that only building up myself would be selfish. But this gift can also used for non-selfish purposes. For example (for this example lets suppose for a moment that this gift comes from God) if I were to pray for you but have no good ideas then Holy Spirit would give me right words to pray. If I myself am more mature, more built up, more firm in faith I could be more useful for church, and with these properties I would be example and light for other. Not that everyone should desire the gift but in general.
Yes, but I see it as good way to get started..... First if tongues work in me it would give me more boldness to approach people who might need healing because I know that if one gift is working, then others can also work when needed.
Well to be hones here I just bring out the fact that theoretically this gift can be used for non-selfish purpose. I dont know how selfish I would be if I had it.
You do violence to that passage by ripping it from its context and using it as proof text. This verse needs to be understood in the light of its context and by other scripture.
1Co 14:9 So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air.
1Co 14:10 There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning,
1Co 14:11 but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me.
Paul was speaking to the church about their behavior in the church service. Just like on the day of Pentecost the church in Corinth was multi-cultural. The common language in the world was greek but most folks felt comfortable speaking their home language. They would get up in the service and share a testimony and use their home language.Problem was not everyone understood. Paul said in response that doing so was not beneficial to the church because not everyone could understand. If they were going to share testimony in their home language then they needed an interpreter. That way eveyrone could understand and the whole church benefits.
Trying to take a verse out of context like you did only leads to people making up an unintelligible jibberish and attributing it to God. That is an abomination.
If I may....
You made the statement that if you spoke in tongues, you would be more confident about the gift of healing. Two things about that: 1) tongues are a sign for unbelievers, not believers. If you're a believer, then why do you need a sign to strengthen your belief in other gifts? Look at how tongues were used in Acts 2; thousands were saved that day. This gift wasn't meant for church or private use.
2) I'm not sure if you meant the gift of healing for yourself, or being more confident about someone else having the gift of healing. If for yourself, then re-read 1 Cor 12. There's nothing in scripture that says we're supposed to have multiple gifts; in fact, scripture actually indicates individual gifts. There's nothing in scripture that indicates tongues are some kind of "gateway" or "first" gift.
Finally, consider something else Paul stressed in 1 Cor 14: I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied....seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
And let us not forget James 4:3. While the context of the passage is different from what we're discussing, the principle may apply. Consider: you're asking for prayer to receive a spiritual gift for personal reasons. Aren't we supposed to be praying that others might be saved? Aren't we supposed to be dying to self? Not hiding our talents in the dirt, but using them to bring more? Perhaps you simply need to pray for more opportunities to share your faith, and see God work that way, rather than for a spiritual gift that would only benefit you?
Because then I know that power of God works in me. And then I would hope that if something works then something else might work as well, but if I dont have that gift, I may think that nothing works. It would be like smoke testing - if you get new computer program, you first run it to see if it opens at all, and if it it does open then you are also more confident that this program can do what you need it to do. It's like a lamp to test if electricity is in the church before you invite christmas band in. Before you tell them take 30 and set up their speakers and amps, you better take 3 sec to toggle lamp switch, and if it fails you know that there is no electricity in the house and you wont waste 30 mins to connect amp to your musical instruments but rather do the whole service with natural sound.
It would be impractical to have it for my self because right now only my eyes need supernatural gift of healing. So it would be more practical to just visit one who has that gift in him. But as soon as I would use gift of healing for others there would be point in having it. I mean at first I would probably be shy and test it in small group or church but if it works then I would also have more courage to go and pray for random people I meet. I mean I would already pray for sick in my mind silently but then I would have courage to go to them and do it audibly.
Well of course I would love to have that gift too. I am not sure sure if I have it or not. I mean sometimes when I think of someone words from and versed from bible come to my mind that are either so harsh or so uplifting that I would not have courage to say these out. So I would love to meet another gifted person who would either verify it or tell me that I am making it up. Well since I am unsure then I'd rather think I am making it up myself, and then it's good that I wont say what comes to my mind.
Sure I will, and I would love you if you would also pray this for me!
1) Comparing your faith to testing a computer program or sound system. This is God we're talking about; you really think you need to "test" His power working through you?
I suggest you re-read Matthew 12:38-39; Matt 16:1-4; John 4:48; 1 Cor 1:22-23.
2) You previously said that if you could speak in tongues, it would help you have more faith in the gift of healing; which you now reveal is because you wish your eyes to be healed.
Remember, Paul had an affliction that God never removed from him. Consider 2 Cor 1:4 (corrected) and think deeply on its meaning.
3) I apparently have a different idea of what "prophesy" means than you do. I'll leave that to some of our Greek scholars here to discuss.
But I will tell you this: never be unsure of proclaiming Christ crucified and risen.
4) You've asked for prayer so you can receive the gift of tongues, which we've shown from 1 Cor 14 is not meant for believers, nor for personal use. You've indicated that it was so you would have more faith in the gift of healing working for you. Have you noticed that your request is for your own benefit, rather than for the benefit of others? Consider this carefully.
5) I will pray that God will increase your faith, and for His will in your life.
I suggest you re-read Matthew 12:38-39; Matt 16:1-4; John 4:48; 1 Cor 1:22-23.
2) You previously said that if you could speak in tongues, it would help you have more faith in the gift of healing; which you now reveal is because you wish your eyes to be healed.
Remember, Paul had an affliction that God never removed from him. Consider 2 Cor 1:4 (corrected) and think deeply on its meaning.
3) I apparently have a different idea of what "prophesy" means than you do. I'll leave that to some of our Greek scholars here to discuss.
But I will tell you this: never be unsure of proclaiming Christ crucified and risen.
4) You've asked for prayer so you can receive the gift of tongues, which we've shown from 1 Cor 14 is not meant for believers, nor for personal use. You've indicated that it was so you would have more faith in the gift of healing working for you. Have you noticed that your request is for your own benefit, rather than for the benefit of others? Consider this carefully.
5) I will pray that God will increase your faith, and for His will in your life.
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So you are doubting the power of God and are demanding He do something to prove Himself to you? Why not just believe Him?
Why do you doubt God? Doubt is the opposite of faith. When you admit you doubt God you are saying you have no faith in God.
Victorious
Member
I have known many people in my 20+ years of being a born again believer who claim to have this gift and I don't doubt they are saved. Instead of calling them "demon possessed" or unsaved, it would be better to see them as "weaker brethren." It seems the poster has Pentecostal leanings. Not a salvation issue.