Please Show Scripture That Says...

[SGO]

Stop! Hold the presses!

These verses:

The word of our God shall stand for ever.
Isaiah 40:8

It is written,
Man shall not live by bread alone,
but by every word
that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Matthew 4:4

stopped their real power and effectiveness at the end of New Testament revelation.

For ever has ended!

God has closed His mouth and is no longer really speaking to those that diligently seek Him.

No bible is inspired today in any language.

There is no "food" in a book that purportedly says it's alive. Hebrews 4:12 Ha ha. Who could think that a book is alive in this day and age.

You do not have to believe that a book is the truth.

And Jesus resurrected during New Testament times.

He is not resurrected any longer.

And the Word was made flesh. John 1:14 is past. We know Greek. Look at the grammatical tense; it's a past tense.

Not believing that God's word is eternal does not affect your salvation.

You will not live any longer or better if you believe that the bible, any bible, is inspired.

The so called words of Jesus are in dispute and are no longer true for today.

There is no proof that God said any of the sayings attributed to Him in any mere translation.

Modern translation techniques and scholarship have determined that this is so.

We rely on ourselves to determine what the bible really says and means.

We are free and independent from relying on the so called word of God.

Because we say so that's why.


All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable... 2 Timothy 3:16
The word of our God shall stand for ever. Isaiah 40:8
It is written, man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Matthew 4:4

 

[Logos1560]

We rely on ourselves to determine what the bible really says and means.

Perhaps you are describing human, KJV-only reasoning where KJV-only advocates rely on themselves and their private interpretations/misunderstandings or rely on an exclusive group of imperfect, biased Church of England critics in 1611. but you are not describing mine.

 

[SGO]

So these verses are not true and/or inspired?



All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable... 2 Timothy 3:16

The word of our God shall stand for ever. Isaiah 40:8

It is written, man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Matthew 4:4

 

[Logos1560]

So these verses are not true and/or inspired?

I have already noted that what the verses actually state is true, but it is what you try to add to the verses that is not true and scriptural. The Scriptures assert that adding to the Scriptures is wrong. Do you ignore that scriptural truth?

You do not answer what I actually state, but instead you improperly and unsoundly try to put words in my mouth that I do not state. You do not answer nor refute my scripturally-based points.

 

[Logos1560]

So these verses are not true and/or inspired?

All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable... 2 Timothy 3:16

The word of our God shall stand for ever. Isaiah 40:8

It is written, man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Matthew 4:4

Do you close your eyes to the truth that those three verses say nothing about the human process of making of Bible translations or nothing about post-NT Bible translations being made by the process of inspiration?

Do you suggest that the word of our God did not stand until Theodore Beza added a textual conjecture to his text at Revelation 16:5 which was followed in the 1611 KJV but that did not stand in the pre-1611 English Bible and in the 1534 Luther's German Bible?

Does your human reasoning suggest that the word of our God did not stand in the pre-1611 English Bible until the KJV translators removed some words found in it and added words not found in it?

Would your human reasoning suggest that the word of our God did not stand until years after 1611 when later editors or printers added over 180 whole words to the KJV that were not found in the 1611 edition of the KJV?

Do you forget that the word of our God had to stand before 1611 before it could stand afterwards?

Is it not fair to conclude that your reasoning is clearly inconsistent and it avoids actual verifiable facts?

 

[SGO]

Do you close your eyes to the truth that those three verses say nothing about the human process of making of Bible translations or nothing about post-NT Bible translations being made by the process of inspiration?

Do you suggest that the word of our God did not stand until Theodore Beza added a textual conjecture to his text at Revelation 16:5 which was followed in the 1611 KJV but that did not stand in the pre-1611 English Bible and in the 1534 Luther's German Bible?

Does your human reasoning suggest that the word of our God did not stand in the pre-1611 English Bible until the KJV translators removed some words found in it and added words not found in it?

Would your human reasoning suggest that the word of our God did not stand until years after 1611 when later editors or printers added over 180 whole words to the KJV that were not found in the 1611 edition of the KJV?

Do you forget that the word of our God had to stand before 1611 before it could stand afterwards?

Is it not fair to conclude that your reasoning is clearly inconsistent and it avoids actual verifiable facts?

Please explain to me why you keep bringing up the King James version of the bible.

You know how I stand on this issue.

This particular thread is about something a little bigger.

It is about can we trust what we have now in all the translations.

You know much more about the process of translating than I ever will.

That is not the concern here.

Are the bibles we have NOW inspired?
No?

So the promises we have translated that say, pardon me for using the KJV,

All scripture is given by inspiration of God does not mean all translations are not inspired.

Not even some of the translations. According to the prevailing wind, not even one translation is inspired.

So if that is true no one has "scripture". What we have is an approximation of the word of God.

It does NOT say all translated approximations are given by inspiration of God.


And "the word of our God shall stand for ever" does not mean we have His word.

All it means is that we have what men think God's word is.

Men made copies, men gathered old and not so old manuscript copies and fragments of copies.

Men studied the old languages.

Men decided, employing the best of their abilities, which manuscript copies and fragments they thought were legitimate.

Then men put those together and came up with the bible.

Then men have translated the bible into their respective languages.

This process took thousands of years and it was not smooth sailing but there were tremendous arguments about what was legitimate and which translations were and are better than the others. These arguments continue today.

And then we can say God was involved in this process or God is involved in the process.

BUT we DO NOT HAVE the inspired word of God in any language, even in the original languages.

So when Jesus purportedly said, It is written Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. He was in effect lying.

The copies they were using of the Old Testament were copies and not the actual words of God for only the originals are inspired.

No, what Jesus said is original so what He said is inspired. But all we have of what "He said" are copies. And even the passages of the Old testament He quoted are inspired because He said them. No. All we have are copies of what He said. We do not have the originals of what those authors wrote that He said. And anyway, He did not quote the entire Old Testament.

So when Isaiah may have said, "the word of our God shall stand for ever" he was speaking in a figurative sense at least from the present perspective.

I am sorry my brother Logos 1560. That is not good enough for me. To me it means that those verses quoted are lies if they are not explicitly true.

When I read in an old, outdated, English translation the word of our God shall stand for ever I want to believe it.

You and many many of the the current scholars, Christian and non Christian, say not exactly is that true.

Or the verse that says, "all scripture is given by inspiration of God", yes that one I want to believe is the exact truth, but this group of intelligent men say No. it is only the original scriptures that were inspired. We do not have the originals today but only copies so BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMP!
that verse in any language is ha ha ha not really true. Go ahead and delude yourself. We will still keep our jobs.

Or this verse that THAT Person maybe maybe maybe said, "It is written..."
Wait. It is written? Where is it written? Well, in the Old Testament. But they did not have the original Old Testament when He was speaking this verse. All they had was copies of it. Not the original. No matter little SGO, we have almost all of it now. Almost but not all.

"It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.' " So what I want wah wah wah
Yeah what I want that verse to be true. Want all you want.
That man will "live... by the word of God written" down in old copies of copies but talked about by Jesus Christ as coming out of the mouth of God. All that is NOT NOT NOT inspired and therefore not true just 'cause Jesus said something written on an old copy of a copy came out of God's mouth.

Hey, I'm going to take a break. I'm no scholar or translator or one who can say I know the _______ language and a better translation of this word would be ___________. I did not even come to the position I hold now by study or by agreeing with someone trying to convince me of it like George A.

 

[Logos1560]

I am sorry my brother Logos 1560. That is not good enough for me. To me it means that those verses quoted are lies if they are not explicitly true.

.

It may not be good enough for your imperfect human reasoning, but evidently it is good enough for Almighty God. My faith is in God and not in your subjective, human reasoning.

You continue to misunderstand and misrepresent what other believers state. You even seem to bear false witness against believers such as me as you in effect try to put words in my mouth that I do not state nor believe. I believe what those verses literally state is completely true without adding to those verses something that they do not state, such as an added claim that the verses would also refer to or include the different process of Bible translation. You are wrong to try to suggest that I do not believe what those verses state.

 

[rlvaughn]

Was hoping you might address this, so I am bringing it forward since it buried in past comments. Thanks.

The actual exact words that proceeded directly out of the mouth of God by inspiration are the original-language words of Scriptures given to the prophets and apostles.

Do you believe that accurate copies of and/or accurate translations of the actual exact words that proceeded directly out of the mouth of God by inspiration are still just as much the word of God as when given they were given by inspiration?

 

[Reformed1689]

I do wonder why the OP cannot answer the simple question.

If translations themselves are inspired, and translations differ, manuscripts differ, which translations and manuscripts are inspired and which ones are not? You can't have it both ways.

@SGO

 

[SGO]

I do wonder why the OP cannot answer the simple question.

If translations themselves are inspired, and translations differ, manuscripts differ, which translations and manuscripts are inspired and which ones are not? You can't have it both ways.

@SGO

This OP question,
Please Show Scripture That Says no translation of the bible can be inspired has not been answered, has it?

Why don't you open your own thread and deal with your question, which I think is a good one coming off of this thread, but slightly different.

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning
This thread will be closed no sooner than 330 am EST - (Tue) / 1230 am PST

 

[Reformed1689]

This OP question,
Please Show Scripture That Says no translation of the bible can be inspired has not been answered, has it?

Why don't you open your own thread and deal with your question, which I think is a good one coming off of this thread, but slightly different.

The question I pose destroys the premise of the OP. That is why you need to answer it.

 

[Logos1560]

This OP question,
Please Show Scripture That Says no translation of the bible can be inspired has not been answered, has it?

It has been soundly answered. You just avoid and ignore the answers. It is also countered by the fact that no one has any obligation to prove a negative such as the one that you present. You will not deal with actual scriptural truths that have been pointed out to you that would conflict with any claim that a translation after the end of the giving of the New Testament is inspired.

Your assertion has also been soundly countered by the fact that you cannot show any scripture that says a translation of the Bible is given by the process of direct inspiration of God.

 

[rlvaughn]

It has been soundly answered.

But, so far as I can tell, this one has not. Do you believe that accurate copies of and/or accurate translations of the actual exact words that proceeded directly out of the mouth of God by inspiration are still just as much the word of God as when given they were given by inspiration?

 

[Reformed1689]

But, so far as I can tell, this one has not. Do you believe that accurate copies of and/or accurate translations of the actual exact words that proceeded directly out of the mouth of God by inspiration are still just as much the word of God as when given they were given by inspiration?

Yes, but that is not the claim the OP is trying to say we oppose.

 

[rlvaughn]

Yes, but that is not the claim the OP is trying to say we oppose.

Neither did I say it was. My question was in specific to a comment that Logos1560 made. But thanks for answering. Good to know.

 

[Salty]

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