Featured Please Show the Scripture that says

I have heard there are scholars that believe Jesus and Paul (and others) referenced the Septuagint anytime they quoted OT passages in the Greek language.

It seems reasonable to me they used the language they were speaking, kone Greek.

However, to make an accurate comparison, you would need to have a very good working knowledge of the Septuagint, biblical Greek, and the Hebrew Bible.

I am confident there are some here that can meet the challenge, but I can see a lot of very technical arguments.

I’d like to read the comments.

peace to you

 

It is difficult to attribute quotes from Jesus to the Septuagint because the authors wrote their material at a later time from memory.
Was Jesus quoting from the Septuagint or was the author remembering the quote that Jesus used from the Septuagint?

Best to do your own research, you’ll learn more and make your own decision.

I’ve been fascinated by one passage (Hebrews 11:21), primarily because it involves a translation of an unpointed Hebrew text (a Hebrew text without vowels).

The Hebrew word for BED and STAFF are drawn from the same Hebrew consonants (mem, tau, he - מטה [right to left])

BED [מִטָּה mishkav]

STAFF [מַטֶּה matteh]

An un-pointed text leaves the decision of what word to use to the translator, it could be either.

In Hebrews 11:27, the author quotes from Genesis 47:31

By faith Jacob, as he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff. Hebrews 11:21 (NASB95)​

In Genesis, the Masoretic Text uses the word BED

He said, “Swear to me.” So he swore to him. Then Israel bowed in worship at the head of the bed. Genesis 47:31 (NASB95)​

The translators of the Septuagint used the word STAFF

He said, “Swear to me.” And he swore to him. And Israel did obeisance upon the top of his staff. (Genesis 47:31 LES – Lexham English Septuagint)​

Then he said, “Swear to me.” And he swore to him. And Israel did obeisance upon the top of his staff. (Genesis 47:31 NETS - New English Translation of the Septuagint)​

There are many places where the author of Hebrews departed from the later Masoretic text using an earlier version (sometimes the Septuagint, sometimes something else).

Rob

 

The recorded history of the Septuagint is that it was translated by Jews because many Jews could not read Hebrew anymore.

During exile in Babylon the lingua franka, (common language) was Aramaic, similar to Hebrew but different.
(later portions of the OT book of Daniel were written in Aramaic).
Those living and prospering in Palestine, (a well traveled crossroads), would have been familiar with Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew, Latin and other languages.
Probably why the sign above the cross was written in many languages.

Rob

 

Jesus wrote it?


Joy unspeakable full of glory

 

One further comment that may or may not be obvious to some.

The Septuagint is a Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament.

So when a New Testament author uses a quote from Scripture, it is a quote from the Old Testament, using:

1) a Greek translation of a Hebrew text at that time,
2) a Greek paraphrase of the Hebrew text
3) a direct quote or paraphrase from the Septuagint or other common Greek translation.
or 4) perhaps something else.​

It is a good practice that anytime you read a quote from Scripture in the New Testament, you should look up the verse in the OT and read (and understand) the OT context.
Many times you will observe differences, sometimes subtle, sometimes not so subtle.

Rob

 

You brought up Jesus' as he read from Luke 4.

I'll use the KJV (if you prefer the textus receptus)... let's compare.

Isaiah 61:1–2 (AV 1873)
The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me;

Because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek;
He hath sent me to bind up the broken-hearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,...​

Luke 4:18–19 (AV 1873) [reformatted to conform to above]
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,

because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor;
he hath sent me to heal the broken-hearted,
to preach deliverance to the captives,
and recovering of sight to the blind,
to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19
to preach the acceptable year of the Lord...​

Most of the differences are well within a general semantic range excepting for the phrase "recovering the sight of the blind", a phrase found in the Septuagint.

Isaiah 61:1-2 (LES) [reformatted]
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,

on account of which he has anointed me; he has sent me to bring good news to the poor,
to heal those who are crushed in heart,
to announce release to the captives
and recovery of sight to the blind,
to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord ...​

Rob

 

The letter of Aristeas is ancient fable.

I’m not really sure you know what you are looking for. Translations are meant to be similar to their Templar so in most instances you will not find major differences.

Christians have valued translations from the very beginning, unlike the Moslem faith where they condemn translators.

I want to note that there are a few Dead Sea Scrolls that predate the NT that were written in Greek.

If you are interested in serious study there are a number of recent books that are a source valuable information.
I’d recommend Karen Jobes and Moises Silva’s Invitation to the Septuagint

Rob

 

SGO, you simply asked a question... I did my best to answer it.
I wasn’t being judgmental.
I’m not telling you to be anything; I’m no scholar myself.
I‘ve simply fed a desire to learn about things that interest me.

After the near east was conquered by Alexander the Great (ca. 333 B.C. E.), the Jewish people came under the influence of Hellenistic culture. Their religious values and ancient ways collided with Greek practices, philosophies, and language. Just as today most Jews live outside of Israel, so it was during the Hellenistic period. Because as a rule the Jews of the Diaspora (Dispersion) scattered throughout the Mediterranean no longer spoke the Hebrew, they needed to translate their sacred writings into Greek, which had become the lingua franca of the Hellenistic world. Thus the Greek version of the Hebrew Bible, now known as the Septuagint, became Scripture to the Greek-speaking Jewish communities in the Diaspora. Together with the Greek New Testament, it would become the Bible of most Christians during the first centuries of the church. The Greek version remains even today the canonical text for the Orthodox Christian tradition, which traces its heritage to the earliest Greek-speaking Christians.​

Because of its widespread importance, numerous copies of the Greek Bible were produced by scribes in many places throughout the centuries. More manuscripts of the Greek Old Testament survive than of any other ancient Greek text except the New Testament. Counting both complete and fragmentary manuscripts, nearly 2000 handwritten copies of the Septuagint have survived. In comparison, we have only about 650 extant manuscripts of Homer’s Iliad, the most popular work of iniquity, and fewer than 350 of the works of the famous Greek tradition Euripides.
Invitation to the Septuagint, by Karen H. Jobes and Moises Silva, from the introduction on page 20
​

Rob

 

I personally do not believe the Septuagint exists. Just as the Letter of Aristeas has been proven to be a fraud, so the Septuagint is most likely a fraud.

I have studied it somewhat and am always amazed at how most Christian scholars still hold to it's existence. I always ask, where is our oldest copy of the Septuagint?

The Septuagint, in my opinion and others, is nothing but Origen's translation of the Old Testament, which was written around 2nd century A.D. The letter of Aristeas was created to somehow give credibility to this translation, as it differed from the Palestinian Jews translation of their Old Testament.

This is all about the difference between the Jews of Israel, or Palestine, and the Jews of Alexandria, who were heavily influenced by Greek philosophy. And Origen was an Alexandrian Jew. Plus, the Apocrypha is included in the so called Septuagint. Thus giving some credibility to the Roman Catholic beliefs.

This impacts our present day modern translations of the Bible. They follow Westcott/Hort's translation which comes from the Alexandrian texts, using a small minority of the vast amount of manuscripts available. In contrast to this, the KJV follows the Palestinian Jews translation of their Old Testament, the Masoretic text. And for the New Testament they rely on the vast majority of manuscripts, copies, and versions available, instead of the few from Alexandria.

This is why you have a considerable amount of differences between the KJV and modern day versions. It is an important matter.

My opinion is that the KJV is the best Bible one can have, and the safest.

Quantrill

 

I'm curious Quantrill,

What do you believe about the theory of gravity?

The Apocrypha was also included in the KJV!

Rob

 

The Gospel Coalition, What is the Septuagint? [link]

...technically speaking, there is no such thing as “the Septuagint.”
If you own a modern copy of the Septuagint (e.g., Rahlfs or Brenton editions), it is an “eclectic” edition, that is, a collection of the best and most reliable Greek manuscripts reconstructed to approximate the original translation of the Old Testament from Hebrew to Greek.

So, when scholars use this term, it does not refer to a single text. Rather, it refers to a collection of Greek translations produced by numerous scribes over the course of a few hundred years and, in all likelihood, composed in different locations.

Today, the term is usually used to refer generally to the various Greek translations of the Hebrew Bible, as well as some additional books, such as Tobit, Maccabees, and Sirach, to name a few.

 

While a little off topic for the Septuagint, I know that Scholars also derive benefit from translations into other languages that were made at very early dates because even a modern copy of an early translation will provide hints of the original wording in the autograph when surviving Greek manuscripts suggest an error has entered at an early date (like the so-called “floating verses” that appear in different locations in different manuscripts.)