pledge of allegiance in church

oops sorry .......... double post

 

Because you were born here allegance is assumed of you. It is still a requirement of citizenship. I think you are misguided. And you sleep sound tonight because men and women have taken an oath to defend your neighborhood and the country you live in.

You did enter into a covenant with God and your spouce. The words you said during the ceramony are called an oath. Something to the effect of "I eloidalmanutha do promise to ......." You call them what you will but they were an oath.

Go tell your spouce you renounce that oath, see how that flys.

 

When I entered into a covenent with God and my wife (marrage). I took an oath pleging allegance to my wife. The oath pleged that I would remain faithful to her and not other women. It in no way places her above my God and my commitments to Him.

 

On patriotic Sundays, we do say the pledge to the American flag, the Christian flag, and the Bible. Pastor feels that it is appropriate, and so do I. We have lots of veterans in our church,
and we also are trying to teach our young people to respect the national symbols, and to know
the differences in the 3 pledges.

 

<Trying to picture my church pledging allegiance to the flag of the USA>


<Trying to picture the response on this board if my church pledged allegiance to the flag of the Netherlands>

 

Please post a link showing where pledging allegiance to this country is a requirement for citizenship for a natural born citizen...I missed that in the Constitution. And since there was not pledge until 1892, then many of our forefathers were never citizens I assume under your understanding of citizenship.

Allegiance is like volunteerism...if it is mandated, then it is not of the heart.

 

EXACTAMUNDO!!!!!!!!! </font>[/QUOTE]I love the USA---but its far from being God's little "Pie in the Sky"----I'd rather look forward to living in New Jerusalem----John calls it "The Holy City"----set apart, spotless, blameless---the Heavenly City of God

We can go on believing that "God sure has blessed us!!!"----but I would say the same thing if I(as a Believer in the Lord Jesus Christ) lived in Moscow, Russia or Peking, China or Havanna, Cuba!!

 

I wish we had a pledge Down Under...

...so I could refuse to do it

 

Because you were born here allegance is assumed of you. It is still a requirement of citizenship. I think you are misguided. And you sleep sound tonight because men and women have taken an oath to defend your neighborhood and the country you live in.

You did enter into a covenant with God and your spouce. The words you said during the ceramony are called an oath. Something to the effect of "I eloidalmanutha do promise to ......." You call them what you will but they were an oath.

Go tell your spouce you renounce that oath, see how that flys. </font>[/QUOTE]As a Christian, I am not required to pledge allegiance to anyone but God, regardless of the law of the land.

I believe that God has granted us continued freedom in this country because of His grace. Not because this country "represents" Him in any way. We are Godless, in my opinion.

I believe that covenant promises of marriage are just that: promises. Funny, the judge never said a word about oaths . . . and I guess he would know

 

We do all three (USA, Christian Flag, Bible) in VBS, and the Preschoolers do them in Children's Church. Other than that it is only on special occasions. IMO the correct order is USA, Christian Flag, then Bible. You start with the least important and end with the most important.

While you may not be required to pledge allegiance to anyone but God. According to Matt 22:21

IMO this means not only do we follow the law of the land, but we support our government. Of course if the government does things against God we would follow God.

Support of our Government = Allegiance

Bill

 

While you may not be required to pledge allegiance to anyone but God. According to Matt 22:21

IMO this means not only do we follow the law of the land, but we support our government. Of course if the government does things against God we would follow God.

Support of our Government = Allegiance

Bill </font>[/QUOTE]Matt 22:15 ¶ Then going, the Pharisees took counsel so as they might trap Him in words.
16 And they sent to Him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Teacher, we know that You are true, and teach the way of God in truth, and it does not concern You about anyone, for You do not look to the face of men.
17 Then tell us, what do You think? Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?
18 But knowing their wickedness, Jesus said, Why do you test Me, hypocrites?
19 Show Me the tribute coin. And they brought a denarius to Him.
20 And He said to them, Whose image and inscription is this?
21 They said to Him, Caesar's. Then He said to them, Then give to Caesar the things of Caesar, and to God the things of God.
22 And hearing, they marveled. And leaving Him, they went away.

Context is taxes, money - no where does Jesus imply supporting or pledging allegiance to Caeser. I do not recall saying that we do not have to follow the laws of the land.

 

Anytime one signs a contract he is pledging to fulfil the requirements of the contract. Just imagine a contractor building someone a home without a contract. A friend is not afraid to sign his name on the dotted line.

 

Who would ever ask Dutch Baptists to pledge allegience to the US flag?

Who could possibly be bothered if Dutch Baptists pledged allegiance to the flag Holland?

 

Nationalism has become a dirty word, and ever so Politically Incorrect. In the past, it was considered to be a way of asking God to bless and direct our country. I served my country, I am a Baptist, and I see no problem with it.

 

The instructions of oath taking in Matt 5 is not an admonition of all oaths. It is an admonition of taking an oath by anything. It is simply saying that, when you take an oath, do so on your own honor. Why? Because sewaring by something implies that your own hoor and word cannot be trusted. Christians are required to be honorable and true to their word.

IOW, this scripture DOES NOT forbid the taking of oaths, pledges, etc.

 

It seems like the discussion has become about whether to say the pledge or not, when the OP is about saying it in church.

I do not like saying it in church at all -- church is the place to worship and honor and learn about the Lord. I feel like saying the pledge in church detracts from God and it bothers me.

 

Matt 5:33 ¶ Again, you have heard that it was said to the ancients: "You shall not swear falsely, but shall give your oaths to the Lord." Lev. 19:12; Num. 30:2
34 But I say to you, Do not swear at all, neither by Heaven, because it is God's throne; Isa. 66:1
35 nor by the earth, because it is the footstool of His feet; nor by Jerusalem, because it is the city of the great King. Isa. 66:1; Psa. 48:2
36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you are not able to make one hair white or black.
37 But let your word be Yes, yes; No, no. For the excess of these is from evil.

Jesus distinctly says in response to the question, that ALL vows and oaths are EVIL. "DO NOT SWEAR AT ***ALL***" Let your word be Yes, yes or No, no "FOR THE EXCESS OF THESE IS EVIL"

 

I was agreeing with Marcia at first, but NiteShift brings up a good point. For awhile now I had not thought of it as a way to ask God to guide our country, but now I remember that as a child this was what we were thinking when we said it in school.....(Christian day school)

 

Oaths in the context of the Bible were to swear by something; oaths were often sworn by a false god as the witness to the oath, and this is why oaths were so evil in the OT.

As far as what Jesus is saying here, I don't think it means things like a pledge of allegiance. If the Pledge included words like, "I swear by the U.S. gov't" or "I swear by myself" or "I swear by the President," etc. it would be wrong.

 

Exactly, Marcia. The instructions of oath taking in Matt 5 is not an admonition of all oaths, only oaths "by" something. Scripture DOES NOT forbid the taking of oaths, pledges, etc. Eloidalmanutha's position is not in the scriptural context.