eloidalmanutha
New Member
double post . . . 
[ February 18, 2006, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: eloidalmanutha ]
[ February 18, 2006, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: eloidalmanutha ]
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pledge of allegiance in church
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eloidalmanutha
New Member
oops . . . cyber space weirdness
eloidalmanutha
New Member
wow . . . triple posting
Sorry eloidalmanutha but "oath" is not the meaning of "pledge" in the contemporary meaning of the "pledge of allegiance".
On the other hand the vows of marriage are of that meaning which you conveniently dismiss as OK though they fulfill your defintion of that "oath" which is forbidden by Scripture.
HankD
On the other hand the vows of marriage are of that meaning which you conveniently dismiss as OK though they fulfill your defintion of that "oath" which is forbidden by Scripture.
HankD
eloidalmanutha
New Member
The Pledge of Allegiance is a promise or oath of allegiance to the United States, and to its national flag. It is commonly recited in unison at public events, and especially in public school classrooms, where the Pledge is often a morning ritual. In its present form, the words of the Pledge are:
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to The Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. (4 U.S.C. § 4)
According to current U.S. custom, as codified by the United States Congress, persons are expected (but not legally required) to recite the Pledge as follows:
by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute. (4 U.S.C. § 4)
Some US states, such as Texas, also have pledges of allegiance to their state flags. See Flag of Texas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance
eloidalmanutha
New Member
when you are married, you do not pledge allegiance to your spouse. This is not the context of my remarks.
You do promise be be faithful, love honor and obey your spouse before God and man. It doesn't matter whether this is in the context of your remarks but in the context of Jesus words which you defined as being selectively applied.
Jesus however made no such distinction, if the Pledge of Allegiance is wrong so then are the "vows" of marriage.
Go back to one of the Scriptures you quoted. Jesus said that we are not to swear BY God or several other entities. The word "by" (or any phrase) used as a preposition pointing to the the object of the pledge is not in the Pledge of Allegiance.
While there is an affirmation of deity, there is no "as God is my witness" or "so help me God" in the pledge.
In the Pledge of Allegiance there is no "swearing" (such as in the court of law oath, calling on God as witness), there is not the presence of the word "oath" but the affirmation of several things, one of which is allegiance to country.
HankD
eloidalmanutha
New Member
You do promise be be faithful, love honor and obey your spouse before God and man. It doesn't matter whether this is in the context of your remarks but in the context of Jesus words which you defined as being selectively applied.
Jesus however made no such distinction, if the Pledge of Allegiance is wrong so then are the "vows" of marriage.
Go back to one of the Scriptures you quoted. Jesus said that we are not to swear BY God or several other entities. The word "by" (or any phrase) used as a preposition pointing to the the object of the pledge is not in the Pledge of Allegiance.
While there is an affirmation of deity, there is no "as God is my witness" or "so help me God" in the pledge.
In the Pledge of Allegiance there is no "swearing" (such as in the court of law oath, calling on God as witness), there is not the presence of the word "oath" but the affirmation of several things, one of which is allegiance to country.
HankD </font>[/QUOTE]The vows of marriage are IN God. It is a COVENANT with and in God. When you pledge allegiance to the flag - this is not GOD, it's a god.
The pledge of allegiance IS in fact an oath - an oath that you will be faithful to the USA as your protector. you pledge or oath allegiance to its government, to its standards - right or wrong. A pledge of allegiance to Iran's flag is no different than pledging allegiance to the USA flag. You are pledging your life, your ALL to the country under which that flag flies.
We are bought with a price - the blood of Jesus. We are citizens of Heaven, not an earthly government.
you said:
"While there is an affirmation of deity, there is no "as God is my witness" or "so help me God" in the pledge."
the pledge of allegiance does say - "one nation under God" however; God has never "authorized" any nation to be "under Him". pretty presumptuous considering the USA is godless.
Concerning the topic of the OP---We pledge allegience to the US flag---on two yearly occasions---(1) At VBS week with our young kids and (2) Memorial Day services once a year
But
I often wonder
how many times to I have to "say the pledge" just to show my allegience
Saying the pledge does not necessarily mean you have sworn allegience
If I never "say the pledge" again as long as I live----I still will be loyal to my country---but I tell you---there's ANOTHER country I love more than this one----its the one above!!!
Heavenly country!!
Holy city not made with hands!!
One of these days---I'm going up and not looking back---all of those pledges I made to the Stars & Stripes will become a thing of the past---a blur in the image of my earthly yesteryear!!
The Bible never once calls us to "Pledge" allegience to the flag----but it does say that we are to "Kiss the Son"---IOW---surrender our totality---our total self--to HIS person
To choose betwen the US and the Son----I say "So long, Uncle Sam!!" "Hello, Sweet King Jesus!!"
But
I often wonder
how many times to I have to "say the pledge" just to show my allegience
Saying the pledge does not necessarily mean you have sworn allegience
If I never "say the pledge" again as long as I live----I still will be loyal to my country---but I tell you---there's ANOTHER country I love more than this one----its the one above!!!
Heavenly country!!
Holy city not made with hands!!
One of these days---I'm going up and not looking back---all of those pledges I made to the Stars & Stripes will become a thing of the past---a blur in the image of my earthly yesteryear!!
The Bible never once calls us to "Pledge" allegience to the flag----but it does say that we are to "Kiss the Son"---IOW---surrender our totality---our total self--to HIS person
To choose betwen the US and the Son----I say "So long, Uncle Sam!!" "Hello, Sweet King Jesus!!"
This is compleatly wrong, a total misreprisentation of what the plege is. A plege is a promice and the words are an oath. But just like signing a contract I only promice what is in the wording.
Look at the wording and show me where it states I will put my country above my God.
I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands,
one Nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
I only plege=promice what I say. You can not imply a promice for me. Just like I plege to my wife and God to be faithfull during marrage. Please disect the wording in this above plege and show me where I have made promices of loyalty above my God.
eloidalmanutha
New Member
AMEN to all of that
I grew up believing that patriotism was equal to christianity. That to be a christian meant that you loved your country and were willing to die for her - that I would be loyal and defend her no matter what. I was a flag waving patriot. My Dad was a WWII veteran who flew B52s over Germany. That is what the pledge meant to me. Those were the days when we believed what the history books told us - that America was founded on the Bible and God.
When God became everything to me, I realized that my loyalties were misplaced. As I did more research and observed this country fall into depths of evil and godlessness I realized that pledging allegiance to the USA meant I supported a lie. It also became clear as I studied God's Word that loyalty to a country, other than His Kingdom, is misplaced.
Personally, I don't have the energy or the time to be patriotic. It's all I can do to contend for the faith and run the race. That's all that matters in the end. Jesus IS. America will soon be gone.
You are simply wrong eloidalmanutha. The Pledge of Alegiance is NOT an oath. There is no oath in it. In modern English a pledge is a pledge and that is all. In addition God is not the object of the pledge, neither is one required to swear by His name which you conveniently dismiss in the case of the Oath of the Court.
In this debate you have propositioned that the Pledge of allegiance is an oath and I have rebutted and said that it is a simple affirmation of loyalty to a country.
Let the readers decide.
Personally, I don't care what you think of America. I love it and I love living here and thank God continuously for the priviledge.
Yes, America has sinned but that subject is also a matter of prayer by multitudes of Christians who love her.
As a veteran I have also defended it and the freedoms of those people who live here.
As a brother in Christ, I love you. I don't like your opinions but then no one is perfect.
I also admire your willingness to boldly state your opinions (wrong as they may be in this case).
HankD
eloidalmanutha
New Member
I found this link and hope you will find it as interesting and thought provoking as I did:
http://www.teachingforchange.org/News%20Items/pledge_of_allegiance.htm
http://www.teachingforchange.org/News%20Items/pledge_of_allegiance.htm