Poll: #3, Suicide & Lapsi

[Claudia_T]

Therein is the purpose of the law.
We are not good enough, nor will we ever be.
If we are honest with ourselves we will admit that we don't even measure up to our own standards much less the standards of a holy and righteous God.

That is why salvation is all of grace. Christ paid the penalty for all of our sins. He paid it all with his blood, being shed for us on the cross. There is nothing that we can do. We aren't good enough to do anything. We are poor wretched blind sinners lost in the depths of sin. Only Christ can save. He saves us on the merit of His work on the cross, not on any merit of our own. There is nothing that we can do. Thus the Bible says "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."
There is nothing to be done, but believe. He paid the penalty for all my sin; and that is what grace is. It is His grace.
For by grace are ye saved through faith.

but who said that anyone isnt relying on the blood of Christ for salvation? I didnt

 

[Ed Edwards]

So the Aborted Christian wasn't saved? Or was and lost the salvation?

'Aborted Christian' was the term used in
the 3rd century (201-300AD). A more accurate translation
is probably 'stillborn Christian'. They accepted Christ as Savior
and were slain for the effort. They did one good work: publically
proclaiming Messiah Jesus as their Lord.
However, they will have a martyrs crown - something we
who do all the posting might never have.

By contrast to the stillborn Christian, I first declared Jesus as Lord
while believing that God had raised Jesus from the dead in April 1952.
So for the past 55 years I've had opportunity to do good works.\
If I don't have any good works, one would probably suspect I
wasn't saved.

Jesus does the saving -- my works don't save me -- Jesus saves me.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Consider the BB (Baptist Board) statement of faith (SOF) at:

http://www.baptistboard.com/sof.html

-------------------------------------
IV. Salvation

Salvation involves the redemption of the whole man,
and is offered freely to all who accept Jesus Christ
as Lord and Saviour, who by His own blood obtained
eternal redemption for the believer. In its broadest sense
salvation includes
regeneration, justification, sanctification, and glorification.
There is no salvation apart from personal faith in Jesus Christ as Lord.

A. Regeneration, or the new birth, is a work of God's grace
whereby believers become new creatures in Christ Jesus.
It is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit through conviction of sin, to which the sinner responds in repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Repentance and faith are inseparable experiences of grace.

Repentance is a genuine turning from sin toward God. Faith is the acceptance of Jesus Christ and commitment of the entire personality to Him as Lord and Saviour.

B. Justification is God's gracious and full acquittal upon principles of His righteousness of all sinners who repent and believe in Christ. Justification brings the believer unto a relationship of peace and favor with God.

C. Sanctification is the experience, beginning in regeneration, by which the believer is set apart to God's purposes, and is enabled to progress toward moral and spiritual maturity through the presence and power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in him. Growth in grace should continue throughout the regenerate person's life.

D. Glorification is the culmination of salvation and is the final blessed and abiding state of the redeemed.
-------------------------------------

I've bolded the parts showing that Jesus saves,
Jesus does the Regeneration Salvation,
Jesus does the Justification Salvation,
Jesus does the Sanctification Salvation (via the Holy Spirit)
Jesus will do the Glorification Salvation.
Jesus saves and not we ourselves.

 

[tragic_pizza]

OK, I'll be the lone one who clicked on the obviously snittily-labelled "Ignorance & Apathy" choice.

It isn;t that I don't care, it's that I don't know... and niether do you.

 

[Amy.G]

All this talk about suicide makes me want to

New topic please!
:laugh: :laugh:

 

[JustPassingThru]

I simply trust that our timeless God, through His grace, has saved me from the penalty of my sins -- past, present, and future. Yes, even the ones I have yet to commit! And yes, even if through some unimaginable set of circumstances I commit suicide or become a lapsi. My trust is in Jesus, not in my ability to avoid unthinkable sins.

"What shall we say then? Shall we CONTINUE IN SIN, that grace may abound? GOD FORBID..." Ephesians 6:1 (KJV)

 

[Ed Edwards]

All this talk about suicide makes me want to

New topic please!
:laugh: :laugh:

Seriously, here are some ways to commit suicide:

1. WMDs (weapons of mass destruction, like guns)
2. swords
3. tobacco (takes about 50 years)
[BTW, this is the most usual form of suicide in the USofA]
4. excessive booze (takes about 40 years)
5. METH (takes about 3 years)
6. speed, snort, etc (takes about 10 years)
7. shoot at a group of police (suicide by cop)
8. Bible distribution in Saudi (suicide by martyrdom)

(oops, this isn't all. Gotta go)

 

[tragic_pizza]

I'm just glad that God doesn't operate by majority vote.

 

[Claudia_T]

Truly nobody knows who is going to Hell and who is not.

Thats why the Bible says

Rom:14:4: Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Truly nobody knows who is going to Hell and who is not.

Thats why the Bible says

Rom:14:4: Who art thou that judgest another man's servant?
to his own master he standeth or falleth.
Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

There are, however, scripture which tells us in general
what types of people are going to Hell and what types
of people are NOT hellbound. So can we talk about types & groups
of people and not individuals? Thank you.

 

[Claudia_T]

There are, however, scripture which tells us in general
what types of people are going to Hell and what types
of people are NOT hellbound. So can we talk about types & groups
of people and not individuals? Thank you.

Yes I think so Ed. You can determine generally who will be in heaven or hell, otherwise there wouldnt even be scriptures about it.

And its good for our own salvation's sake to try to figure this out on here.

Im just saying that in individual cases we cant really judge someone's eternal destiny..

 

[Ed Edwards]

Yes I think so Ed. You can determine generally who will be in heaven or hell, otherwise there wouldnt even be scriptures about it.

And its good for our own salvation's sake to try to figure this out on here.

Im just saying that in individual cases we cant really judge someone's eternal destiny..

Right, Sister Claudia_T we really can't judge someone's eternal
destiny. In fact, I have enough problems judging Ed's eternal
destiny that I should not give any regard to how Claudia is doing.
Ed just can't be Claudia.

 

[tragic_pizza]

I don't know. A wig, a little makeup...

:laugh:

 

[Claudia_T]

A Question for all the Brain Sturgeons in here:


How could we even be able to sin "wilfilly" if we dont have a choice?

Heb:10:
26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27: But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28: He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

 

[tragic_pizza]

Who says we don't have a choice?

 

[Claudia_T]

Unless Im misunderstanding... the non-freewill people dont think we have a choice about anything? or is that just the salvation part?

Im kind of lost with all these differing beliefs on here.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Unless Im misunderstanding... the non-freewill people dont think we have a choice about anything? or is that just the salvation part?

Im kind of lost with all these differing beliefs on here.

Well, I'm not a spokesman for all "non-freewill" people, but I can give you my understanding.

We have a "choice" in whether or not to respond to God's call to salvation. Why some don't is beyond me, and beyond the understanding of the best minds in Reformed theology.

Part of the way we refuse to respond is by choosing sin - both th acts which are sinful and the state of separation from God which is sin.

 

[Claudia_T]

Part of the way we refuse to respond is by choosing sin - both the acts which are sinful and the state of separation from God which is sin.

Is this considered to be just before salvation happens or after too?

is this the Total Depravity part of it?

Like are you Totally Depraved before God chooses you to be saved or afterwards and all through your Christian experience?

 

[tragic_pizza]

Is this considered to be just before salvation happens or after too?

is this the Total Depravity part of it?

Like are you Totally Depraved before God chooses you to be saved or afterwards and all through your Christian experience?

Very good qustion. It think "Total Depravity" is a completely separate issue, one dealing with both our inability and unwillingness to seek God on our own. That's where God's grace, which calls us to repentance, comes in.

Personally, I think it's that "depravity" which keeps us in need of forgiveness as we grow in Christ. Otherwise, when we were reconciled to God, we'd never have another problem.

But I think I just said, "yes and no," didn't I?

 

[Janosik]

...
If I don't have any good works, one would probably suspect I
wasn't saved.

Jesus does the saving -- my works don't save me -- Jesus saves me.

If you don't have any good works how you can say you believe in Jesus. If you believe in Jesus you do as He says. If good works are missing your faith can be questioned. If your faith is questionable then salvation is as well. Do I miss something?