Poll: If the 2nd A was constitutionally repealed…….

[Lodic]

Scripture points out they were not obeying God when they revolted. Many colonists also disagreed with them. The Revolutionary War was actually the First Civil War of neighbor against neighbor.
It was the tactics of the Rebels that has been used in many other places in the world, including the Vietnam communist rebels who revolted against France and later the US.

The difference between the US rebels and the Vietnamese rebels is that the US rebels claimed God as their excuse while the Vietnamese claimed themselves as their excuse.

Look at Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine for the influence that spurred rebellion.

Romans 13 does not teach that we are to strictly obey all government laws. Daniel, the Hebrew Midwives, and others practiced civil disobedience. Acts 4:19-20 tells us that we are to disobey man's laws when they contradict God. Our founding fathers believed Scripture gave them the right to specifically resist bad laws, bad acts, or bad governments. History shows that they initially pursued peaceful reconciliation; it was Great Britain that terminated the discussions. In their understanding, the American Revolution was not an act of anarchy or rebellion; rather it was an act of resistance to a government that violated the Biblical purposes for which God had ordained civil government. In fact, so cognizant were the Founders that they would account to God for what they had done and be justified in His eyes, that the flag of the Massachusetts Army proclaimed "An Appeal to God," and the flag of the Massachusetts Navy likewise declared "An Appeal to Heaven." This was a defensive resistance more than an offensive rebellion.

Which leads us back to the question at hand. The U.S. Government is restricting our rights more and more. Just as we would be justified in resisting a government edict to stop holding church services or a law to abort every child after your 2nd one, we are justified in resisting these un-Godly laws and this un-Godly government. Like our founding fathers, we should try peaceful resolutions first, but we should be prepared to do whatever is necessary if/when they attempt to outlaw our guns, silence our free speech, etc.

 

[canadyjd]

So God, whom we're to obey as a role model for righteous living on our part, "Christlike"=Christian, can kill babies and children because he's God. But we can't legalize abortion because killing babies is contrary to the spirit of righteousness, that is God?

When Jesus,who was God, The Word made flesh, told his Disciples, “truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven"?

This is completely off topic, but I’ll give my view. We are not commanded to “be like God” when it comes to administering judgement with the death penalty. We are to leave such things to God.

If you look at the passages in the OT where God commanded the death of children, it is in the context of judgement. God sent the Hebrew people into Egyptian slavery because “the sins of the Amorites is not yet complete”. Once the “sin” was complete, the Hebrews were freed from slavery and commanded to kill all in the land God had given them. Same thing with the of all firstborn in Egypt.

If you wan to continue this conversation, please start another thread so we don’t derail this one.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Romans 13 does not teach that we are to strictly obey all government laws. Daniel, the Hebrew Midwives, and others practiced civil disobedience. Acts 4:19-20 tells us that we are to disobey man's laws when they contradict God. Our founding fathers believed Scripture gave them the right to specifically resist bad laws, bad acts, or bad governments. History shows that they initially pursued peaceful reconciliation; it was Great Britain that terminated the discussions. In their understanding, the American Revolution was not an act of anarchy or rebellion; rather it was an act of resistance to a government that violated the Biblical purposes for which God had ordained civil government. In fact, so cognizant were the Founders that they would account to God for what they had done and be justified in His eyes, that the flag of the Massachusetts Army proclaimed "An Appeal to God," and the flag of the Massachusetts Navy likewise declared "An Appeal to Heaven." This was a defensive resistance more than an offensive rebellion.

Which leads us back to the question at hand. The U.S. Government is restricting our rights more and more. Just as we would be justified in resisting a government edict to stop holding church services or a law to abort every child after your 2nd one, we are justified in resisting these un-Godly laws and this un-Godly government. Like our founding fathers, we should try peaceful resolutions first, but we should be prepared to do whatever is necessary if/when they attempt to outlaw our guns, silence our free speech, etc.

The founders of this country rebelled against God and His word when they rebelled against England. It wouldn’t be the first, or last, time men hid behind claims of being in the will of God to justify clearly non-biblical actions.

Any who claim we “should do whatever it takes” if 2nd A is repealed is simply doing the same thing.

Christian are specifically commanded not to rebel against our government We certainly are not obligated to obey laws that contradict scripture. Repeal of 2nd A does not violate scripture.

peace to you

 

[AustinC]

Romans 13 does not teach that we are to strictly obey all government laws. Daniel, the Hebrew Midwives, and others practiced civil disobedience. Acts 4:19-20 tells us that we are to disobey man's laws when they contradict God. Our founding fathers believed Scripture gave them the right to specifically resist bad laws, bad acts, or bad governments. History shows that they initially pursued peaceful reconciliation; it was Great Britain that terminated the discussions. In their understanding, the American Revolution was not an act of anarchy or rebellion; rather it was an act of resistance to a government that violated the Biblical purposes for which God had ordained civil government. In fact, so cognizant were the Founders that they would account to God for what they had done and be justified in His eyes, that the flag of the Massachusetts Army proclaimed "An Appeal to God," and the flag of the Massachusetts Navy likewise declared "An Appeal to Heaven." This was a defensive resistance more than an offensive rebellion.

Which leads us back to the question at hand. The U.S. Government is restricting our rights more and more. Just as we would be justified in resisting a government edict to stop holding church services or a law to abort every child after your 2nd one, we are justified in resisting these un-Godly laws and this un-Godly government. Like our founding fathers, we should try peaceful resolutions first, but we should be prepared to do whatever is necessary if/when they attempt to outlaw our guns, silence our free speech, etc.

If you had fully read my posts, you would know I agree. When government demands that we break God's moral laws (10 Commandments) we must not obey government for our Kingdom is in heaven and we are exiles here.
The founding fathers of the US never established that Britain was breaking God's law in its rule.

 

[Lodic]

The founders of this country rebelled against God and His word when they rebelled against England. It wouldn’t be the first, or last, time men hid behind claims of being in the will of God to justify clearly non-biblical actions.

Any who claim we “should do whatever it takes” if 2nd A is repealed is simply doing the same thing.

Christian are specifically commanded not to rebel against our government We certainly are not obligated to obey laws that contradict scripture. Repeal of 2nd A does not violate scripture.

peace to you

While I generally agree with your view on most topics, I must respectfully disagree. No new argument, though. I believe this was more of a resistance which turned into a revolution after all peaceful efforts had failed.

 

[Lodic]

If you had fully read my posts, you would know I agree. When government demands that we break God's moral laws (10 Commandments) we must not obey government for our Kingdom is in heaven and we are exiles here.
The founding fathers of the US never established that Britain was breaking God's law in its rule.

The Declaration of Independence makes the case for itself. King George III was breaking God's law just as surely as Pharaoh broke God's law with his treatment of the Israelites.

 

[BasketFinch]

The founders of this country rebelled against God and His word when they rebelled against England. It wouldn’t be the first, or last, time men hid behind claims of being in the will of God to justify clearly non-biblical actions.

Any who claim we “should do whatever it takes” if 2nd A is repealed is simply doing the same thing.

Christian are specifically commanded not to rebel against our government We certainly are not obligated to obey laws that contradict scripture. Repeal of 2nd A does not violate scripture.

peace to you

You live in England?

 

[AustinC]

The Declaration of Independence makes the case for itself. King George III was breaking God's law just as surely as Pharaoh broke God's law with his treatment of the Israelites.

Where does God say we have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

Second, what moral laws is King George breaking as presented in the declaration of independence?

 

[canadyjd]

While I generally agree with your view on most topics, I must respectfully disagree. No new argument, though. I believe this was more of a resistance which turned into a revolution after all peaceful efforts had failed.

You are probably correct. Some involved didn’t want revolution at all, but finally concluded there was no other way to ensure their freedoms.

Thanks for the comments.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

You live in England?

No need to ask personal questions in this debate, it really doesn’t matter where I live, but I am a U.S. citizen and lived in the US all my life, except during my service in the US army where I spent time in the Middle East.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

The Declaration of Independence makes the case for itself. King George III was breaking God's law just as surely as Pharaoh broke God's law with his treatment of the Israelites.

Wasn’t the revolution, at least in part, based on taxation without representation?

Scripture tells us to pay our taxes, whatever they are, Scripture also says to obey our government officials, as long as they don’t violate God’s law.

The hypothetical is that the 2nd A has been legally repealed, per the constitutional requirements.

For all those embracing the constitution to support the 2nd A (which is absolutely correct) they now appear to be having a complete disconnect by saying they will reject the constitution that has legally repealed the 2nd A.

That is contrary to God’s word.

Peace to you

 

[BasketFinch]

No need to ask personal questions in this debate, it really doesn’t matter where I live, but I am a U.S. citizen and lived in the US all my life, except during my service in the US army where I spent time in the Middle East.

peace to you

It's already personal when Americans think we'd be safer if there were no guns .

The English aren't safe though they are disarmed.

Law abiding citizens being disarmed does nothing less than expand the hunting ground of the non-law abiding who know they'll meet no armed resistance. Because fun control laws control those who abide by the law.

And our Revolution was not umbilical nor against God. In fact it was Godly and biblical. And what smacks as disingenuous in such a debate is when those who allegedly are citizens here denegrate our founding as ungodly. It was just the opposite. As Christian's know if they paid attention to the history.

This country's foundation was of God after victory in that Revolutionary War was God's will.

 

[BasketFinch]

The Declaration of Independence makes the case for itself. King George III was breaking God's law just as surely as Pharaoh broke God's law with his treatment of the Israelites.

Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's.

I don't for a minute buy the argument some make against America's fight for liberty and independence. Especially when they allegedly live here after the fact.

Which is sin.

Because they're allegedly enjoying the fruits of the labors of colonists they posthumously disrespect. And charge as heretics and blasphemers, workers of darkness, when insisting as they do those colonists were acting against God, God's law, and God's will.

So to live here is to violate God's word when he says have nothing to do with the ungodly or their fruits. Ephesians 5:11.

No 4th of July celebration for those type folk in this thread.
Having no respect for freedom and liberty, they'd be the highest form of hypocrite if they were to celebrate that date.


What Were The Main Reasons The Colonists Wanted To Break Free From Britain? » historyofmyamerica.com

 

[BasketFinch]

This is completely off topic, but I’ll give my view. We are not commanded to “be like God” when it comes to administering judgement with the death penalty. We are to leave such things to God.

If you look at the passages in the OT where God commanded the death of children, it is in the context of judgement. God sent the Hebrew people into Egyptian slavery because “the sins of the Amorites is not yet complete”. Once the “sin” was complete, the Hebrews were freed from slavery and commanded to kill all in the land God had given them. Same thing with the of all firstborn in Egypt.

If you wan to continue this conversation, please start another thread so we don’t derail this one.

peace to you

I disagree. The topic of babies entered this thread awhile ago. And you responded to it in post #35.
My post is just expounding on that which was already entered into this discussion.

 

[atpollard]

The people vote in the process of changing the constitution. It cannot be changed by congressional action alone.

Incorrect.
From WHITEHOUSE.gov

“The founders also specified a process by which the Constitution may be amended, and since its ratification, the Constitution has been amended 27 times. In order to prevent arbitrary changes, the process for making amendments is quite onerous. An amendment may be proposed by a two-thirds vote of both Houses of Congress, or, if two-thirds of the States request one, by a convention called for that purpose. The amendment must then be ratified by three-fourths of the State legislatures, or three-fourths of conventions called in each State for ratification.”
​

A Constitutional Amendment is FIRST voted on by the US CONGRESS and then voted on by the STATE LEGISLATURES. That is not a vote by “the people”, that is a vote by “the government”.

 

[atpollard]

I don’t see any reasonable comparison to a Christian opposing abortion and refusing to comply with the legal repeal of the 2nd A.

Obviously.

 

[JonC]

Well, so far we have 100% willingness to comply with the law here on the BB.

I am genuinely heartened by the results.

peace to you

It is the only Christian responce.

Christians like to talk the talk when the circumstances suits them. The question is whether they will obey God when obedience conflicts with their desires.

 

[JonC]

Why is one “obviously evil” and the other “not at all an obvious evil”?

The GOVERNMENT declared that it was wrong to kill babies and right for people to own weapons to prevent tyranny. That SAME GOVERNMENT later declared that a baby was not a baby until it was born (so it was not wrong to kill an unborn baby) and that the people had no need to own weapons to prevent tyranny (ban on automatic weapons). So when you posit that this SAME GOVERNMENT someday decides that people need to own NO WEAPONS to prevent tyranny, what makes SOME decisions of the government GOOD and other decisions of the same government EVIL? A LAW is a LAW and you are asking if CHRISTIANS will obey the government (Romans 13) and obey the LAWS.

Is it so unreasonable to ask if the government that can support killing defenseless babies might support tyranny against defenseless citizens?

The US government never declared abortion wrong.

Anyway, Christians obey the government unless obedience to the government is disobedience to God.

 

[Cathode]

Well, so far we have 100% willingness to comply with the law here on the BB.

I am genuinely heartened by the results.

peace to you

It was illegal to be a Jew in Germany and totally lawful to take their property and send them to the gas chambers.

Are you heartened by those legal results?

You don’t render your God given rights to Caesar.

 

[Cathode]

It is the only Christian responce.

Christians like to talk the talk when the circumstances suits them. The question is whether they will obey God when obedience conflicts with their desires.

The 2A only recognises the preexisting god given right of self defence, this is not something that should be traded away to Caesar, especially by father’s and husbands who have a god given duty to protect those in his charge.

If husbands and fathers abdicate and abrogate their God given responsibilities over to Caesar, the world is truly lost to hell.

Repeal the 2A and God given Right remains. Husbands and fathers will still have the god given duty as protectors but will have rendered themselves powerless to do so if hand over their weapons.