Poll: If the 2nd A was constitutionally repealed…….

[JonC]

Owning and bearing arms for self defence and defence of others is a God given innate Right. Human beings would not exist without exercising this innate right in a hostile world.

I have existed over 5 decades without having to exercise the right.

Owning a firearm is simply not a God given right.

 

[Lodic]

Wasn’t the revolution, at least in part, based on taxation without representation?

Scripture tells us to pay our taxes, whatever they are, Scripture also says to obey our government officials, as long as they don’t violate God’s law.

The hypothetical is that the 2nd A has been legally repealed, per the constitutional requirements.

For all those embracing the constitution to support the 2nd A (which is absolutely correct) they now appear to be having a complete disconnect by saying they will reject the constitution that has legally repealed the 2nd A.

That is contrary to God’s word.

Peace to you

In responding to several other posts, I accidentally overlooked sending you a reply. I do apologize.

"Taxation Without Representation" is the grievance that gets the most attention in the list of reasons for the Revolution. Imposing taxes without the consent of the colonists was the 17th grievance. If that had been the only reason, or even a main reason, they might not have resorted to rebellion. Their long-suffering is demonstrated in the fact that they didn't rebel against the British immediately following the Boston Massacre (March 5, 1770).

Yes, we are to obey governmental officials as long as they do not violate God's law. The point is that the founding fathers believed King George III was violating God's law. We have a Biblical parallel in 1 Kings 11-12. After the death of Solomon, his son Rehoboam replaced him as king. The northern tribes, who functioned much as our colonies did, met with the king to bring their just complaints regarding what they had had to endure under Solomon’s heavy-handed rule. With Jereboam as their spokesman, they complained that Rehoboam’s father had “made our yoke heavy.” If Rehoboam would “lighten the hard service” Solomon had imposed on them, “we will serve you” (1 Kings 12:4). They had also had been made subject to a long train of abuses and petitioned humbly for relief. As we know, Rehoboam responded as King George did. “The king did not listen to the people”.

The parallels are impossible to ignore. A heavy-handed central government. Repeated petitions for relief, which were ignored. A declaration of independence from former political allegiances (1 Kings 12:16). God’s blessing on the endeavor. In fact, the entire affair in both instances was under the sovereign direction of God. In summary, the colonists had a Biblical model to follow.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So God, whom we're to obey as a role model for righteous living on our part, "Christlike"=Christian, can kill babies and children because he's God. But we can't legalize abortion because killing babies is contrary to the spirit of righteousness, that is God?

When Jesus,who was God, The Word made flesh, told his Disciples, “truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven"?

Kind of hypocritical wouldn’t you say!

 

[AustinC]

Your constitution merely recognises your natural inalienable human right to self defence as free men. That right preexisted your government and the constitution.

If you deny people the means of self defence you deny the right of self defence.

If people take this incredible gift of life for granted and you care not for its defence or the lives of those in your care, by all means, make your self defenceless.
A man is responsible for ecosystem under his care.

A man deserves the undying scorn and disrespect of his wife and children when he fails in his god given responsibility to protect them.

He should gift his martial bed to Caesar ( he’ll take it from here ), and hand his children over to criminals, death or slavery.

When I was 5 I saw my neighbours chopped up with axes in a payback attack. I used to go next door and the lady used to fry bananas for me.
She was killed, her head nearly completely cut off.
I learned from this at a young age, many take life for granted in the decadent western world.

Most of the world does not have Rights enumerated in a constitution, it seems many in the US take these hard won rights for granted, they need the history lesson in real time.

Here we don’t have the right to self defence, we can not carry anything that could be used as a weapon in our defence. People die defenceless here all the time, the government prohibits the means of self defence.

Cathode, this world is corrupt and as God gives people up to their own corruption (Romans 1) we will see great atrocities that will cause us to say "even so, come Lord Jesus." Christians have suffered horrible deaths throughout the world, in every era. We have carried the cross to be counted worthy of suffering for the Lord's name.
1 Peter 4:1-19

Since therefore Christ suffered in the flesh,arm yourselves with the same way of thinking, for whoever has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, so as to live for the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for human passions but for the will of God. For the time that is past suffices for doing what the Gentiles want to do, living in sensuality, passions, drunkenness, orgies, drinking parties, and lawless idolatry. With respect to this they are surprised when you do not join them in the same flood of debauchery, and they malign you; but they will give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. For this is why the gospel was preached even to those who are dead, that though judged in the flesh the way people are, they might live in the spirit the way God does. The end of all things is at hand; therefore be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers. Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins. Show hospitality to one another without grumbling. As each has received a gift, use it to serve one another, as good stewards of God’s varied grace: whoever speaks, as one who speaks oracles of God; whoever serves, as one who serves by the strength that God supplies—in order that in everything God may be glorified through Jesus Christ. To him belong glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice insofar as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. But let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a meddler. Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name. For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And “If the righteous is scarcely saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?” Therefore let those who suffer according to God’s will entrust their souls to a faithful Creator while doing good.

 

[canadyjd]

In responding to several other posts, I accidentally overlooked sending you a reply. I do apologize.

"Taxation Without Representation" is the grievance that gets the most attention in the list of reasons for the Revolution. Imposing taxes without the consent of the colonists was the 17th grievance. If that had been the only reason, or even a main reason, they might not have resorted to rebellion. Their long-suffering is demonstrated in the fact that they didn't rebel against the British immediately following the Boston Massacre (March 5, 1770).

Yes, we are to obey governmental officials as long as they do not violate God's law. The point is that the founding fathers believed King George III was violating God's law. We have a Biblical parallel in 1 Kings 11-12. After the death of Solomon, his son Rehoboam replaced him as king. The northern tribes, who functioned much as our colonies did, met with the king to bring their just complaints regarding what they had had to endure under Solomon’s heavy-handed rule. With Jereboam as their spokesman, they complained that Rehoboam’s father had “made our yoke heavy.” If Rehoboam would “lighten the hard service” Solomon had imposed on them, “we will serve you” (1 Kings 12:4). They had also had been made subject to a long train of abuses and petitioned humbly for relief. As we know, Rehoboam responded as King George did. “The king did not listen to the people”.

The parallels are impossible to ignore. A heavy-handed central government. Repeated petitions for relief, which were ignored. A declaration of independence from former political allegiances (1 Kings 12:16). God’s blessing on the endeavor. In fact, the entire affair in both instances was under the sovereign direction of God. In summary, the colonists had a Biblical model to follow.

I actually see the parallel between Rehoboam and King George and you make a good point, there. However, Rehoboam not only didn’t give relief, but increased the burdens.

Additionally, the Kingdom of Israel was torn apart because Solomon allowed idol worship throughout. It was God’s punishment for the idolatry, not for high taxes or excessive burdens on the people. 1 Kings 11:1-11.

The colonists clearly violated scripture by rebellion against England, but that really isn’t the topic of this thread.

If the 2nd A was legally repealed through the constitutional process, would you comply with laws concerning confiscation of weapons?

peace to you

 

[Lodic]

I actually see the parallel between Rehoboam and King George and you make a good point, there. However, Rehoboam not only didn’t give relief, but increased the burdens.

Additionally, the Kingdom of Israel was torn apart because Solomon allowed idol worship throughout. It was God’s punishment for the idolatry, not for high taxes or excessive burdens on the people. 1 Kings 11:1-11.

The colonists clearly violated scripture by rebellion against England, but that really isn’t the topic of this thread.

If the 2nd A was legally repealed through the constitutional process, would you comply with laws concerning confiscation of weapons?

peace to you

I really appreciate how you are so civil in our disagreement. You never let disagreements turn into arguments. You are right, the topic of this thread is the hypothetical repeal of the 2nd Amendment, and I apologize for getting off topic.

To be completely honest, I would not comply with any law that confiscated my firearms. History shows this is a bad idea. I believe taking away our right to self-defense is wrong.

 

[canadyjd]

Well, so far the poll is a 50/50 split and there have been reasonable, civil debate and many views given. Much appreciated. Let’s keep it going.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

I really appreciate how you are so civil in our disagreement. You never let disagreements turn into arguments. You are right, the topic of this thread is the hypothetical repeal of the 2nd Amendment, and I apologize for getting off topic.

To be completely honest, I would not comply with any law that confiscated my firearms. History shows this is a bad idea. I believe taking away our right to self-defense is wrong.

Thanks for the candid response. I suspect your view is probably held by the majority of gun owning Christians (and many non gun owning Christians).

I was where you are now, at one point in my life. For better or worse, I’ve changed my mind and become more pacifist as my understanding of scripture (rightly or wrongly) has led me in such areas.

Honestly, as I’ve said before, when it comes to protecting my family, I would likely not be so pacifist. Such a teaching of passive acceptance of persecution is hard to accept and who can bare it? And yet, scripture is full of such martyrs, including our Lord.

No doubt, imo, removing guns will occur prior to the great tribulation. Who are we to stand against biblical prophecy?

Thank you for the compliment. I appreciate your reasoned responses as well.

peace to you

 

[OnlyaSinner]

Because the chance of repealing 2A is barely distinguishable from zero, I consider the poll question to be moot, and did not make a choice. IMO, a government willing to render its citizens' means of self-defense is a government on the way to tyranny and is likely a government willing to remove the "free exercise" clause from 1A.

 

[Cathode]

I have existed over 5 decades without having to exercise the right.

Owning a firearm is simply not a God given right.

Not everyone has had a safe comfortable neighbourhood and existence for half a century. You know that’s totally not the norm in human history or geography, and that you are greatly blessed.
Some places people are constantly fighting off serious threats to their families. Two very different experiences of life.

Bearing arms is a natural human right that is God given. Nature bears arms constantly, those close to God’s creation know this, those born to air conditioning and pretzels, not so much.

 

[canadyjd]

Because the chance of repealing 2A is barely distinguishable from zero, I consider the poll question to be moot, and did not make a choice. IMO, a government willing to render its citizens' means of self-defense is a government on the way to tyranny and is likely a government willing to remove the "free exercise" clause from 1A.

Thanks for comments

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Not everyone has had a safe comfortable neighbourhood and existence for half a century. You know that’s totally not the norm in human history or geography, and that you are greatly blessed.
Some places people are constantly fighting off serious threats to their families. Two very different experiences of life.

Bearing arms is a natural human right that is God given. Nature bears arms constantly, those close to God’s creation know this, those born to air conditioning and pretzels, not so much.

There is no doubt it is easier to support gun confiscation when a person lives on relative safety.

But it isn’t a question of “easy” or “hard”, the question is obedience to God’s Word even when you suffer grave harm in doing so.

It is also interesting the gospel is flourishing in places like China with little to no “rights” exist and all Christians not part of official government church suffer.

peace to you

 

[BasketFinch]

Kind of hypocritical wouldn’t you say!

Some may think so. Then there are those who insist God is a , do as I say not as I do ,sovereign.
To each their own I guess.
It's there in scripture. Everyone can choose what to think about it.

 

[BasketFinch]

Thanks for the candid response. I suspect your view is probably held by the majority of gun owning Christians (and many non gun owning Christians).

I was where you are now, at one point in my life. For better or worse, I’ve changed my mind and become more pacifist as my understanding of scripture (rightly or wrongly) has led me in such areas.

Honestly, as I’ve said before, when it comes to protecting my family, I would likely not be so pacifist. Such a teaching of passive acceptance of persecution is hard to accept and who can bare it? And yet, scripture is full of such martyrs, including our Lord.

No doubt, imo, removing guns will occur prior to the great tribulation. Who are we to stand against biblical prophecy?

Thank you for the compliment. I appreciate your reasoned responses as well.

peace to you

How do you protect your family if you obey government and let them confiscate your guns? Or own none to begin with?

 

[AustinC]

Not everyone has had a safe comfortable neighbourhood and existence for half a century. You know that’s totally not the norm in human history or geography, and that you are greatly blessed.
Some places people are constantly fighting off serious threats to their families. Two very different experiences of life.

Bearing arms is a natural human right that is God given. Nature bears arms constantly, those close to God’s creation know this, those born to air conditioning and pretzels, not so much.

The epistles are written to Christians who are being unjustly beaten and killed. The Apostles tell us how to live. Being a Christian is hard and the cross is a path that is hard. Jesus is very aware. This is why Revelation is such an encouraging book for the believer. Our King is very aware, and he is coming to our rescue. We hold the Fort until he returns, using our weapons, which are the Bible and prayer.

As for your situation, I pray for the peace of the city in which you live as an exile.

Jeremiah 29:4-7

“Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, to all the exiles whom I have sent into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon: Build houses and live in them; plant gardens and eat their produce. Take wives and have sons and daughters; take wives for your sons, and give your daughters in marriage, that they may bear sons and daughters; multiply there, and do not decrease. But seek the welfare of the city where I have sent you into exile, and pray to the Lord on its behalf, for in its welfare you will find your welfare.

 

[canadyjd]

How do you protect your family if you obey government and let them confiscate your guns? Or own none to begin with?

Good question. I would be as wise as a serpent and as innocent as a dove.

If need be, I’d sacrifice myself with every ounce of strength to give them time to get away or call police.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Double post

peace to you

 

[BasketFinch]

Good question. I would be as wise as a serpent and as innocent as a dove.

If need be, I’d sacrifice myself with every ounce of strength to give them time to get away or call police.

peace to you

You'd defend your family by letting yourself be killed by the enemy?


What if it's the police under a police state action threatening your family?

 

[canadyjd]

You'd defend your family by letting yourself be killed by the enemy?

What if it's the police under a police state action threatening your family?

Then I would passively endure whatever persecution came my way, praying God protect us and accepting whatever came our way. I would not respond with violence. Myself and my family would be, as always, safest in the hands of God.

peace to you

 

[Cathode]

There is no doubt it is easier to support gun confiscation when a person lives on relative safety.

But it isn’t a question of “easy” or “hard”, the question is obedience to God’s Word even when you suffer grave harm in doing so.

It is also interesting the gospel is flourishing in places like China with little to no “rights” exist and all Christians not part of official government church suffer.

peace to you

Scripture assures us that there will come a day when all men will voluntarily and joyfully turn their swords into ploughshares, predators and prey in happy company, but it would be irresponsible and stupid to force disarmament until that blessed day.