tamborine lady
Active Member
DHK said:I don't see any evidence today of this gift being in operation Biblically.
DHK
I can tell you without a doubt that you never will either.
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Poll: Tongues
- Thread starter Gershom
- Start date
DHK said:I don't see any evidence today of this gift being in operation Biblically.
DHK
I can tell you without a doubt that you never will either.
So you finally agree--tongues have ceased. We will never see them in operation Biblically.Originally posted by tamborine lady:
DHK said:I don't see any evidence today of this gift being in operation Biblically.
DHK
I can tell you without a doubt that you never will either.
tamborine lady
Active Member
No I do not agree that tongues have ceased. I simply know that YOU will never hear them or experience them because you refuse to look for them!! You refuse to believe they exist!!
Tam
I have seen plenty of people speak in gibberish, Tam, but no one speak in Biblical tongues. I am a missionary. I have learned a few languages, none of them miraculously given to me of God. But then, you would probably cruelly hold that against me, just like today's faith healers say to those that are not healed that they don't have enough faith. What a cruel society we live in, especially among those that call themselves Christians.
DHK
DHK
tamborine lady
Active Member
What a cruel society we live in, especially among those that call themselves Christians.
Amen
Hi johnd here, If you do not speek in tonges,it could be that you do not believe That it`s for today , The bible said that if we pray in are closite in secrete, He well reward you openingly,Them That say that tonges are not for today do not have the ability to speek in tonges because they do not believe it is for them Today , but if you ask the Lord Then you will be in for quite a serprise, It will only be between you and Your Lord, Your prayer time is between you and God try it and you will see ,If you do not then you will not speek in tongse, It is as simpel as That what have you got to lose, but you have a lot to to gane,
I will pray that you mate just ask the Lord just to see, After all you mate be wrong!!!!!!!, and Then were will you be, becouse If you are wrong, Well The Word of God has said only the Spirit will inter The Kindom of God
But if you are Right Then you do not have to worry I would not like to take that risk we all have to stand infrunt of God and macke account of are Life to God it is as simpel as That.
I will pray that you mate just ask the Lord just to see, After all you mate be wrong!!!!!!!, and Then were will you be, becouse If you are wrong, Well The Word of God has said only the Spirit will inter The Kindom of God
Hi johnd here, If you do not speak in tonges,it could be that you do not believe That it`s for today , The bible said that if we pray in are closite in secrete, He well reward you openingly,Them That say that tonges are not for today do not have the ability to speek in tonges because they do not believe it is for them Today , but if you ask the Lord Then you will be in for quite a serprise, It will only be between you and Your Lord, Your prayer time is between you and God try it and you will see ,If you do not then you will not speak in tongse, It is as simpel as That what have you got to lose, but you have a lot to to gane,
I will pray that you mate just ask the Lord just to see, After all you mate be wrong!!!!!!!, and Then were will you be, becouse If you are wrong, Well The Word of God has said only the Spirit will inter The Kindom of God
But if you are Right Then you do not have to worry I would not like to take that risk we all have to stand infrunt of God and macke account of are Life to God it is as simpel as That.
I will pray that you mate just ask the Lord just to see, After all you mate be wrong!!!!!!!, and Then were will you be, becouse If you are wrong, Well The Word of God has said only the Spirit will inter The Kindom of God
Brian30755
New Member
I'm sure you have a good answer for this, but I have to ask: Are you saying that basically NONE of Paul's writings apply to us today? Because almost everything he wrote was to a particular chuch or a particular group of Christians at a particular time.
It seems odd to me that when those folks who believe that the biblical gift of speaking in tongues is still for us today are called to a foreign mission field that they must be taught the language of that region through some language school.
Wouldn't that be an indication of such a person's lack of faith in God?
After all, if God can somehow miraculously endow an individual using no external means with the ability to speak in foreign language, why then would that individual have to take a course in learning the language of a region to which God has called him?
Wouldn't that be an indication of such a person's lack of faith in God?
After all, if God can somehow miraculously endow an individual using no external means with the ability to speak in foreign language, why then would that individual have to take a course in learning the language of a region to which God has called him?
There's the old blame game that the typical Charasmatic relies on. They rely on experience not the Word of God. I don't believe in tongues because I know what the Bible teaches concerning tongues, and that Biblical tongues have ceased. I would rather believe the Word of God not someone's experience, and for those to sit in judgement of others who have thoroughly studied the Bible out on this subject and conclude "Because you haven't tried it" is both arrogant, naive, and judgemental.
You are like the faith healer: You blame the person not healed because they have not enough faith. Yet Christ and the apostles were able to heal all that came to them. No one can do that today. If faith healers had such power to heal why don't we see them walking up and down the corridors of the hospitals healing those that are truly sick? The answer--they are frauds practicing a fraudulent gift.
The same is true of tongues. Like the true gift of healing, the true gift of tongues has ceased. God doesn't give actual languages to people today. If he did why do missionaries have to go to language school before they reach the mission field?--even Pentecostal missionaries. Because their religion is filled with contradictions and hypocrisy. They don't have the true Biblical gift of tongues. Tongues always are real known languages. When you speak in tongues what language do you speak? How do you know? Is it interpreted? By who? Into what language? How does he know what language it is? Or is it all a fraud? How do you know?
DHK
tamborine lady
Active Member
O.K., DHK, for the people who are new here and don't know your frame of referance, tell them where the scripture is that says tongues are not for today!!
Tam
Brian30755
New Member
Concerning Spiritual Gifts (ch. 12-14)
a. Endowment of Gifts (12:1-31)
i. Gifts are to maintain unity in diversity (12:1-11
ii. Members of the human body are compared to the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and therefore must refer to the local church (12:12-31).
Chapter Twelve: Spiritual Gifts.
Before the New Testament was completed, while it was in the process of being written, in certain places, and at certain times, God gave special miraculous manifestations of the Holy Spirit to help the churches guide themselves in the truth.
This was necessary, because the Apostles were few, the churches far apart, the means of transportation and communication slow, no railroads, telegraphs or radios. Ideas could travel no faster than people could travel. The churches everywhere were overrun with false teachers making all kinds of false claims, and churches had no written records as to actual facts.
Apparently there had recently been a brilliant display of gifts of the Holy Spirit in Corinth. One of these gifts was that of speaking in tongues, that is an actual foreign language (Acts 2:8), as the Apostles did on the day of Pentecost. This gift was very popular with the Corinthians. They all wanted it. If a brother could get up in a meeting and speak right out in a language that his neighbors knew he had never studied, that would be plain evidence that he was under direct control of the Holy Spirit, and they would look up to him. Then, as now, some people went to church for the honor they could get out of it for themselves. The various gifts of the Spirit are enumerated in verses eight to ten: wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, tongues, interpreting of tongues. It is in a discussion of the relative value of these various gifts that the Love chapter is set.
b. Energy of Gifts--Love (ch. 13)
Chapter Thirteen: Love.
This is the great teaching of Christianity: an undying expression of Jesus' doctrine of heavenly love. More potent than any gifts, or all the manifestations of the spiritual gifts put together, is love.
Verses 8 to 13 give undeniable proof that tongues ceased at the end of the first century when the New Testament was complete. Today we have that which is perfect, the Bible.
(Halley)
c. Exercise of Gifts (ch. 14)
i. Gift of prophecy is superior to gift of tongues (14:1-22)
ii. Order in local church for exercise of any gift (14:23-40)
Chapter Fourteen: Tongues and Prophesying.
This chapter is a discussion of the relative value of tongues and prophesying, which seem to have been the two gifts most sought after. In context prophesying was not predicting the future, but having the gift of teaching on a lofty plane, a special aid of the spirit given for the purpose of teaching. It was far more valuable than tongues because everybody understood it.
Paul forbids the women to speak aloud in the meetings.
Note the restrictions that Paul gives against speaking in tongues, as well as the arguments put forward not to speak in tongues:
1. It is the least important gift listed in 12:28.
2. It ceased with the completion of the N.T. (13:8-13)
3. Dont speak in tongues because no man understands you (14:1-3)
4. Because it does not edify anyone (14:3,4)
5. Because 5 words of understanding are better than 10,000 words in an unknown tongue (14:19)
6. Because the gift of tongues was given as a sign to the unbelieving Jew. If therefore there is no unbelieving Jew present it is an unscriptural gift (14:21,22)
7. There should be no more than 2 or at the most 3 that should speak in tongues, and then always turn by turn
8. There must be an interpreter, if there is
no interpreter he must be silent! (27,28)
9. The women must keep silence in the church. It is not permitted for them to speak. It is a shame for women to speak in the church. (34,35)
Show me a church that keeps all the restrictions enforced by Paul upon those that speak in tongues, and I will show you first century New Testament churches. There are no churches that keep these restrictions today, and in fact, cannot.
DHK
i. Gift of prophecy is superior to gift of tongues (14:1-22)
ii. Order in local church for exercise of any gift (14:23-40)
Chapter Fourteen: Tongues and Prophesying.
This chapter is a discussion of the relative value of tongues and prophesying, which seem to have been the two gifts most sought after. In context prophesying was not predicting the future, but having the gift of teaching on a lofty plane, a special aid of the spirit given for the purpose of teaching. It was far more valuable than tongues because everybody understood it.
Paul forbids the women to speak aloud in the meetings.
Note the restrictions that Paul gives against speaking in tongues, as well as the arguments put forward not to speak in tongues:
1. It is the least important gift listed in 12:28.
2. It ceased with the completion of the N.T. (13:8-13)
3. Dont speak in tongues because no man understands you (14:1-3)
4. Because it does not edify anyone (14:3,4)
5. Because 5 words of understanding are better than 10,000 words in an unknown tongue (14:19)
6. Because the gift of tongues was given as a sign to the unbelieving Jew. If therefore there is no unbelieving Jew present it is an unscriptural gift (14:21,22)
7. There should be no more than 2 or at the most 3 that should speak in tongues, and then always turn by turn
8. There must be an interpreter, if there is
no interpreter he must be silent! (27,28)
9. The women must keep silence in the church. It is not permitted for them to speak. It is a shame for women to speak in the church. (34,35)
Show me a church that keeps all the restrictions enforced by Paul upon those that speak in tongues, and I will show you first century New Testament churches. There are no churches that keep these restrictions today, and in fact, cannot.
DHK
1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Cor. 13:10 But when that which is "perfect" is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Cor. 13:10 But when that which is "perfect" is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
Jesus, a masculine person, cannot be represented by a neuter pronoun, of which "that which is perfect" is. The Word of God is represented by a neuter pronoun, not a man. That which is perfect is the Word of God, and it was perfected or completed, as the word means at the end of the first century. At that time "that which was in part was done away. In other words: those gifts mentioned in 13:8 "Prophesy, tongues, and revelatory knowledge were done away with at the end of the first century. Tongues have ceased. There was no more need of them at the end of the first century when the canon was completed with the completion of the Book of Revelation.
DHK
DHK