Poor proof that Christ has a physical body now

[Yeshua1]

It is sad, but not surprising, that many Christians value tradition, however long, over the naked testimony of the Word. Tradition may or may not be based on truth. Often it is exactly what Christ warns of, tradition of men that makes the word of God of no effect.

Where does the scriptures state that we will NOT experience the same resuurection as Jesus did, a physical one?

 

[agedman]

Just a bunch of "this word can mean this here, Why? because you are ignorant of the Greek".

Not to offend, but merely to ask, because you state you are not scholarly in the Greek, why then do you discredit what Greek Scholarship has been repeatedly shown?

The only conclusions one might draw is that obstinacy, blindness, or denial because of shame is the ruling factor

Please, I am really not accusing, but trying to understand the motivation behind the entrenchment.

 

[agedman]

Where does the scriptures state that we will NOT experience the same resuurection as Jesus did, a physical one?

Did not John say, “Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.”

 

[Covenanter]

Not to offend, but merely to ask, because you state you are not scholarly in the Greek, why then do you discredit what Greek Scholarship has been repeatedly shown?

The only conclusions one might draw is that obstinacy, blindness, or denial because of shame is the ruling factor

Please, I am really not accusing, but trying to understand the motivation behind the entrenchment.

Almost every translation translates genea as generation.

The KJV translates Strong's G1074 in the following manner: generation (37x), time (2x), age (2x), nation (1x).
​

We read in the form "this generation" which occurs many times where Jesus is rebuking the Scribes & Pharisees & their supporters. Real, living people who were rejecting Jesus & would subsequently reject the Gospel & persecute Apostles & converts.

The translation race may be possible in some contexts, genos is translated race in the NASB. The reason the Greek experts on this forum (NOT "Greek scholarship") insist on race is because they reject Jesus "coming" prophecy being fulfilled in AD 70 & claim the whole Jewish race will suffer, but still exist, until Jesus returns when he will inflict the great tribulation on them.

I believe God's AD 70 punishment was limited to the generation that rejected their Messiah. And that from Pentecost onwards the Gospel has been open to all, including the generation that rejected him.

Persecution of the Jews down the ages is totally unwarranted & evil.

 

[TCassidy]

I stand on Scripture, not "the orthodox" position. Most of the 2,000 years was dominated by the RC church & the Orthodox church. And most of it by Christians holding church-state links. Independent baptists have been a persecuted minority since Constantine.

His glorification, after his ascension:

4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.​

You seem to have missed the question. "At what point did He lose His physical resurrection body?"

 

[prophecy70]

Not to offend, but merely to ask, because you state you are not scholarly in the Greek, why then do you discredit what Greek Scholarship has been repeatedly shown?

The only conclusions one might draw is that obstinacy, blindness, or denial because of shame is the ruling factor

Please, I am really not accusing, but trying to understand the motivation behind the entrenchment.

I want to know what Greek Scholarship has shown?

Most of what they talk about its nothing to do with language, its a preconceived theology, making the language fit.

Its the same as the OT in the Hebrew, Jewish people who deny christ, do not do it because of the language, they are fluent in Hebrew, They do it on a preconceived dogma.

They can not present any facts, about the word Genea, other then it can mean generation or race. No Greek person or lexicon can interpret how that word is used in that passage just by knowing the language. What is not scholarly, is the idea on what is the context of this chapter. That is where my discredit is, not the fact they know greek, but the fact that they do does not make them right automatically right in the theology.

 

[TCassidy]

Almost every translation translates genea as generation.

Once again you miss the point. "Generation" does not always mean "all the people alive at one time." In fact, of the 7 common definitions, listed in order of common usage, your definition is next to last!

 

[prophecy70]

Once again you miss the point. "Generation" does not always mean "all the people alive at one time." In fact, of the 7 common definitions, listed in order of common usage, your definition is next to last!

this is my my point exactly.

How is it used in preceding passages?, not in a Lexicon.

But never I have I seen proof of not being used as his contemporaries in that passage.

 

[TCassidy]

I want to know what Greek Scholarship has shown?

It has shown that γενεα is a form of the word for "birth" and can mean "all those descended by birth from a single person." In this case descended from Abraham.

I've already shown you how the cognate γεννηθη is translated "born" in John 3:3 and other places in the New Testament.

But you keep ignoring God's inspired word.

 

[prophecy70]

It has shown that γενεα is a form of the word for "birth" and can mean "all those descended by birth from a single person." In this case descended from Abraham.

I already shown you how the cognate γεννηθη is translated "born" in John 3:3 and other places in the New Testament.

But you keep ignoring God's inspired word.

And thats what you keep doing, if someone disagrees you attack them.

You still have not proved what it means in Matthew 24. Or preceding that, the exact phrase THIS GENERATION.

I don't ignore Gods inspired word. I ignore your uninspired ramblings, unless you present me with scripture.

 

[prophecy70]

It has shown that γενεα is a form of the word for "birth" and can mean "all those descended by birth from a single person." In this case descended from Abraham.

matthew 1:7
So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and
from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations;
and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

Does it mean there here then?

 

[TCassidy]

Acts 14:16 (NIV) In the past times (γενεαις), he let all nations go their own way.

Acts 15:21 (NIV) For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times (γενεων) and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.


Phillipians 2:15 (KJV) That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation (γενεας), among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

 

[TCassidy]

Does it mean there here then?

The same thing it meant the last time you asked and I answered the question. It means "the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy." Just like both Strongs and Thayers say.

 

[TCassidy]

You still have not proved what it means in Matthew 24. Or preceding that, the exact phrase THIS GENERATION.

I have told you over and over and over again it means "this nation" or "this people." The Jewish nation. The Jewish people.

 

[agedman]

Almost every translation translates genea as generation.

The KJV translates Strong's G1074 in the following manner: generation (37x), time (2x), age (2x), nation (1x).
​

We read in the form "this generation" which occurs many times where Jesus is rebuking the Scribes & Pharisees & their supporters. Real, living people who were rejecting Jesus & would subsequently reject the Gospel & persecute Apostles & converts.

The translation race may be possible in some contexts, genos is translated race in the NASB. The reason the Greek experts on this forum (NOT "Greek scholarship") insist on race is because they reject Jesus "coming" prophecy being fulfilled in AD 70 & claim the whole Jewish race will suffer, but still exist, until Jesus returns when he will inflict the great tribulation on them.

I believe God's AD 70 punishment was limited to the generation that rejected their Messiah. And that from Pentecost onwards the Gospel has been open to all, including the generation that rejected him.

Persecution of the Jews down the ages is totally unwarranted & evil.

But, preterist do not stop with just the punishment.

Rather, they claim the actual return of Christ at that date.

This, of course, is the construction of multiple threads.

All boils down to accepting the actual historical evidences in comparison to prophetic statements.

This pattern of validation of all prophecy (which is what God told should be done to discern if a prophet was truthfully proclaiming the Words of God) leds to discernment and clarification of which of the multiple definitions must be accurate.

In doing so, as the selection of which definition is acceptable, one must also validate that definition and the fullness of that prophetic passage by the consistency with all other prophetic revealing of the event.

All that in consideration, one should not violate prophecy in one area in attempting to conform prophecy to a specific scheme.

When the Scripture states as plainly as it does, “this is the second coming” and the event is the start of the millennial reign that has wonderful passages in the OT as to the nature and conformity to the messiah King, then any scheme that presents some opposing view cannot be held as valid, nor its statements of Scripture support.

 

[agedman]

I want to know what Greek Scholarship has shown?

Most of what they talk about its nothing to do with language, its a preconceived theology, making the language fit.

Its the same as the OT in the Hebrew, Jewish people who deny christ, do not do it because of the language, they are fluent in Hebrew, They do it on a preconceived dogma.

They can not present any facts, about the word Genea, other then it can mean generation or race. No Greek person or lexicon can interpret how that word is used in that passage just by knowing the language. What is not scholarly, is the idea on what is the context of this chapter. That is where my discredit is, not the fact they know greek, but the fact that they do does not make them right automatically right in the theology.

Perhaps, because they are teachers who explain to students, they, by learned automation, conform their words to the level of the listener.

For example, in a near thread, one of the scholars was using language translation terms that the general reader of the forums would probably not be familiar. In a classroom, some student would ask for clarification, and the scholar would then work to bring education and understanding. On the forums, a gentle probe is all it takes. . The teacher conforms the explanation to the ears of those learning.

You are correct that knowing a language does not automatically show how the individual words are to be discerned in a passage.

However, one, who does not know the language nor been involved in translation of Scriptures into other languages from the Original, should be rather careful not to discredit what those scholars have shown as acceptable when it comes to a contentious area.

Because, the teaching of languages involves far more than learning the alphabet, forming words, putting words into accurately formed sentences. That is elementary (using a graded schooling system example).

When translations involve working through whole books, and in the case of John of Japan, the whole Bible, taking the original languages and presenting them accurately in another tongue, the work is held as that far more delicate than even the Scribes of the OT who merely were copyist of what was already written.

Can you just imagine the rebuke before God if the work was not done to His level of expectancy? Unlike a classroom, that work must be precisely accurate with extreme care that each word selected is truthful to the whole.

Therefore, when one of the multiple scholars contributes to a thread using original language tools, it comes with the force of experience, understanding, and scholarship beyond the typical pastor which is why they are raised in esteem to the ranks above teacher to that of theologian.

Often as I have used the original languages in a post, I appeal to the theologians on the B.B. to kindly redirect me if they find me in error. This they have done.

Is it too hard for you?

 

[Yeshua1]

Did not John say, “Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.”

I agree with you, as was asking our pretierist friend why he does not see that i the scriptures!

 

[Covenanter]

Once again you miss the point. "Generation" does not always mean "all the people alive at one time." In fact, of the 7 common definitions, listed in order of common usage, your definition is next to last!

Definition of generation in English:
NOUN

• 1 All of the people born and living at about the same time, regarded collectively.
  
  ‘one of his generation's finest songwriters’
  
  1. 1.1 The average period, generally considered to be about thirty years, in which children grow up, become adults, and have children of their own.
     ‘the same families have lived here for generations’
     
     
  2. 1.2 A set of members of a family regarded as a single step or stage in descent.
     as modifier, in combination ‘a third-generation Canadian’
     
     
  3. 1.3 A group of people of similar age involved in a particular activity.
     ‘a new generation of actors and directors’
     
     
  4. 1.4 A single stage in the development of a type of product or technology.
     ‘a new generation of rear-engined sports cars’
     
     as modifier, in combination ‘fourth-generation broadband’
• 2 mass noun The production or creation of something.
  
  ‘methods of electricity generation’
  
  ‘the generation of wealth’
  1. 2.1 The propagation of living organisms; procreation.
     

Wherever do you get you definitions????

 

[Covenanter]

Merriam Webster

Definition of generation
:a body of living beings constituting a single step in the line of descent from an ancestor
b :a group of individuals born and living contemporaneously

• the younger generation

:a group of individuals having contemporaneously a status (such as that of students in a school) which each one holds only for a limited period
d :a type or class of objects usually developed from an earlier type

• first of the … new generation of powerful supersonic fighters
• —Kenneth Koyen

2a :the action or process of producing offspring :procreation
b :the process of coming or bringing into being

• generation of income

c rigination by a generating process :production; especially :formation of a geometric figure by motion of another
:the average span of time between the birth of parents and that of their offspring

 

[TCassidy]

Wherever do you get you definitions????

Strong's Concordance
genea: race, family, generation
Original Word: γενεά, ᾶς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: genea
Phonetic Spelling: (ghen-eh-ah')
Short Definition: a generation
Definition: a generation; if repeated twice or with another time word, practically indicates infinity of time.

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from ginomai
Definition
race, family, generation
NASB Translation
generation (32), generations (10), kind (1).

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
γενεά

γενεά, γενεάς, ἡ (ΓΑΝΩ, γίνομαι (crf. Curtius, p. 610)); the Sept. often for דּור; in Greek writings from Homer down;
1. a begetting, birth, nativity: Herodotus 3, 33; Xenophon, Cyril 1, 2, 8, etc.; (others make the collective sense the primary significance, see Curtius as above).

2. passively, that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family;

a. properly, as early as Homer; equivalent to מִשְׁפָּחַה, Genesis 31:3, etc. σῴζειν Ρ᾽αχαβην καί τήν γενεάν αὐτῆς, Josephus, Antiquities 5, 1, 5. the several ranks in a natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy: Matthew 1:17 (ἑβδόμῃ γενεά οὗτος ἐστιν ἀπό τοῦ πρώτου, Philo, vit. Moys. i. § 2).

b. metaphorically, a race of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character; and especially in a bad sense a perverse race: Matthew 17:17; Mark 9:19; Luke 9:41; Luke 16:8; (Acts 2:40).

3. the whole multitude of men living at the same time, used especially of the Jewish race living at one and the same period: Matthew 11:16; Matthew 12:39, 41f, 45; Matthew 16:4; Matthew 23:36; Mark 8:12, 38; Luke 11:29f, 32, 50; Luke 17:25; Acts 13:36; Hebrews 3:10; ἄνθρωποι τῆς γενεάς ταύτης, Luke 7:31; ἄνδρες τῆς γενεάς ταύτης, Luke 11:31; τήν δέ γενεάν αὐτοῦ τίς διηγήσεται, who can describe the wickedness of the present generation, Acts 8:33 (from Isaiah 53:8 the Sept.) (but cf. Meyer, at the passage).

4. an age (i. e. the time ordinarily occupied by each successive generation), the space of from 30 to 33 years (Herodotus 2, 142, et al.; Heraclitus in Plutarch, def. orac. c. 11), or ὁ χρόνος, ἐν ᾧ γεννωντα παρέχει τόν ἐξ αὐτοῦ γεγεννημένον ὁ γεννησας (Plutarch, the passage cited); in the N. T. common in plural: Ephesians 3:5 (Winers Grammar, § 31, 9 a.; Buttmann, 186 (161)); παρῳχημέναις γενεαῖς in ages gone by, Acts 14:16; ἀπό τῶν γενεῶν for ages, since the generations began, Colossians 1:26; ἐκ γενεῶν ἀρχαίων from the generations of old, from ancient times down, Acts 15:21; εἰς γενεάς γενεῶν unto generations of generations, through all ages, forever (a phrase which assumes that the longer ages are made up of shorter; see αἰών, 1 a.): Luke 1:50 R L (דּורִים לְדור, Isaiah 51:8); εἰς γενεάς καί γενεάς unto generations and generations, ibid. T Tr WH equivalent to וָדור לְדור, Psalm 89:2; Isaiah 34:17; very often in the Sept.; (add, εἰς πάσας τάς γενεάς τοῦ αἰῶνος τῶν αἰώνων, Ephesians 3:21, cf. Ellicott at the passage) (γενεά is used of a century in Genesis 15:16, cf. Knobel at the passage, and on the senses of the word see the full remarks of Keim, iii. 206 (v. 245 English translation)).

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
age, generation
From (a presumed derivative of) genos; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons) -- age, generation, nation, time.

see GREEK genos

Forms and Transliterations
Γενεα γενεά Γενεὰ γενεᾷ γενεαι γενεαί γενεαὶ γενεαις γενεαίς γενεαῖς γενεαν γενεάν γενεὰν γενεας γενεάς γενεὰς γενεᾶς γενεων γενεών γενεῶν Genea Geneà geneai geneaí geneaì geneā̂i geneais geneaîs genean geneàn geneas geneás geneàs geneâs geneon geneôn geneōn geneō̂n

Strong's Greek 1074
43 Occurrences

Γενεὰ — 17 Occ.
γενεαὶ — 5 Occ.
γενεαῖς — 2 Occ.
γενεὰν — 4 Occ.
γενεᾶς — 13 Occ.
γενεῶν — 2 Occ.