Pope Francis gives church hundreds of new saints...

[Thinkingstuff]

Walter,

I am for catholics and would like for them to trust in Jesus perfect work on the cross.

Were you born again in the baptist church? Are you saying that you were saved as a baptist, and then converted?

The only time there will be One Holy Church is In heaven on the last day, when it assembles.:thumbs:

I have spoken to many catholic priests.....it was shocking what they had to say.My second cousin the nun.....has many unscriptural ideas that she has promoted on telicare.....

http://ncronline.org/authors/sr-camille-darienzo

Not all Catholics even nuns and priest are properly Catachized. Seems strange to say that. But clearly there is clear church teaching on certain subjects like abortion and gay marriage and there are clergy and nuns who oppose Catholic Teaching thinking all the while they are consistent with the Church. There are bishops in this catagory as well. When in fact they are discenters from the faith. Albeit unknownst to them. If they fail at very obvious things like abortion and gay marriage then doesn't it stand to reason they are wrong about the issues like salvation?

However, now we are discussing salvation and Catholics according to most evangelicals if I were to ask "what must I do to be saved." the invariable scriptural answer they will give is

because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.”

Well, don't Catholics meet that passage from Romans? I mean I confess that Jesus is Lord and I believe in my heart that God raised him from the dead therefore meeting these two requirements am I also not saved? The fact is this proclamation in Jesus as Lord and that he rose from the Dead is made at every Mass as Catholics say "I believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
one in Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:For our sake he was crucified
under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered, died, and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in fulfillment of the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end."

Clearly, Catholics believe these things so how can we not match the evangelical litmus test for salvation?

 

[Iconoclast]

Let's get this straight right now - Catholics do trust in "Jesus perfect work on the cross" because if they are true Catholics, they are taught to do that. From where do you think all of Christianity comes?

WM

WM,

i am thankful that early on God preserved his truth and for a time used the early church to preserve His word and fight against heretics. heretices have existed from the Apostolic time.

the church however was long ago corrupted......God only knows when and how...

 

[WestminsterMan]

I went to my nephew's first communion last Sunday. Not only does he have no idea what the meaning is behind it, that was the most dead and robotic service I have ever been to! It was like the zombie apocalypse inside of 4 stained glass windowed walls! The idols adjoining the halls made me want to puke.

It made you want to puke did it? Then why in the heck did you go and expose yourself to such devilish activities? If the RCC is everything you and others here depict it to be, then associating with it is no different than going to a satanic mass - if you really think the RCC is so blasted evil, then you should'nt - if you're such a big christian that is.

Look - you're hypocracy is what is nausiating. You, like many here, are just looking for any platform from which to launch hateful and biased attacks on the RCC! That's not very Christ-like is it.

The lack of love from the hundreds there is telling..

Lack of love? What is truely telling is the lack of love that is depicted here with perfect regularity.

I feel bad for you new 'converts'. My wife, an ex catholic, felt uneasy and mentioned how cold and dead everything felt.

Don't feel bad for me brother as I left a cold and dead Baptist church for an on fire gospel filled Catholic Church. You do understand that there are cold and dead churches all over the world don't you - even Baptist churches? Apparently not!

Oh the arrogance!

WM

 

[WestminsterMan]

WM,

i am thankful that early on God preserved his truth and for a time used the early church to preserve His word and fight against heretics. heretices have existed from the Apostolic time.

the church however was long ago corrupted......God only knows when and how...

So you say - but where's your proof? All I see is empty rhetoric that you probably got as talking points from someone who was just parroting that anti-Catholic line that they themselves accepted as fact from someone else. God gave us minds to think with - might I recommend that you use yours.

WM

 

[WestminsterMan]

No...when works are looked at as meritorious they trust in Jesus ...Plus....

Hebrews 10:10-14 is clear......It was a once for all time never to be repeated sacrifice.....

no unbloody re-offering of any.mass...

Hang on a minute... you are contradicting yourself. Which is it - a repeated sacrifice or an unbloody re-offering? Be precise.

Were you saved in the baptist church??? I did not see your response:thumbs:

That's because you didn't ask me - you asked Walter. :thumbs:

WM

 

[Walter]

Hello WM,
No not at all....It would say to me that just because you were brought into a baptist church does not mean that you have a saving relationship with Jesus as Lord. I would like for you to trust in His perfect work as I would all cradle catholics to do.
My post you will find unfortunately to be right on point.
Next time you go to a "mass"....see if what I say is not true...be honest.

The fact that some of you come to post is good, however the fact that many more are not here shows they have no interest in the truth of God.

Most that speak on catholic answers are protestant apostates....they learned a little religion in a baptist, or protestant church....drifted into a roman church were they an feel like they know something more than the congregation of the dead they sit with.....I know all about it my friend.

NO, MY FRIEND. THE REASON 'MANY MORE ARE NOT HERE' IS BECAUSE THIS BOARD DOES NOT ALLOW CATHOLICS TO JOIN! Not because 'they have no interest in the truth of God' as you claim.

The BB allowed Catholics to join years back and there were many, many Catholics posting. I followed the board as a non-member back then and that is when I began my study.

The reason their are a total of four of us here is that we sincerely studied the Catholic faith as Baptists and converted to the Catholic faith while members of this board. We have been allowed to remain here and post.

To answer your question as to 'was I saved in the Baptist church?' Absolutely! And, I will always be grateful for that.

 

[Iconoclast]

Thinkingstuff

Hello TS,

Not all Catholics even nuns and priest are properly Catachized. Seems strange to say that. But clearly there is clear church teaching on certain subjects like abortion and gay marriage and there are clergy and nuns who oppose Catholic Teaching thinking all the while they are consistent with the Church.

Well okay...glad to see you are objective on this. Listen ....in every church sadly there are many who do not study out Divine truth as they should.

When I say I am against the church, but not anti-catholic- that is what i am talking about. Most times I have spoken with family members and other catholics....I have to explain to them what catholics are supposed to believe, before we can even discuss why i no longer worship there.:thumbs:

There are bishops in this catagory as well. When in fact they are discenters from the faith.

I can agree with you on this!

Albeit unknownst to them. If they fail at very obvious things like abortion and gay marriage then doesn't it stand to reason they are wrong about the issues like salvation?

Exactly.....For example...you know there is a list of "popes" who fathered illegitimate children and such....pedophiles etc.....there is no defence for this, so I do not expect you guys to answer for them, as i would not answer for a baptist or protestant who also commits such vile sins.

However, now we are discussing salvation and Catholics according to most evangelicals if I were to ask "what must I do to be saved." the invariable scriptural answer they will give is Well, don't Catholics meet that passage from Romans? I mean I confess that Jesus is Lord and I believe in my heart that God raised him from the dead therefore meeting these two requirements am I also not saved?

TS......I am glad you confess Jesus as Lord. If it is he alone who you trust by God given faith....you are saved....

If you add other things into it....works,indulgences, mary as co-mediatrix, and other such contra scriptural teaching....this would nullify what you profess with your lips.....

The illustration being... a gallon of good milk with a spoon full of poison, becomes a gallon of poison. The principle would be found in Acts 15....some wanted to add circumcision to grace and faith.....
anything we add destroys it.

The fact is this proclamation in Jesus as Lord and that he rose from the Dead is made at every Mass as Catholics say "I believe in one God

,

let's be honest...it is a vain repetition for most....do not deny this...


the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
one in Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:For our sake he was crucified
under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered, died, and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in fulfillment of the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end."

Clearly, Catholics believe these things so how can we not match the evangelical litmus test for salvation?

True catholics believe many correct facts...it is the unbiblical additions which make it come into question.....

TS.....I really desire to see no one perish....I believe that would be your desire also. Just be honest when you attend and see the tragic condition of the church...i mean those who come and have no idea what is in the bible...

 

[Iconoclast]

NO, MY FRIEND. THE REASON 'MANY MORE ARE NOT HERE' IS BECAUSE THIS BOARD DOES NOT ALLOW CATHOLICS TO JOIN! Not because 'they have no interest in the truth of God' as you claim.

The BB allowed Catholics to join years back and there were many, many Catholics posting. I followed the board as a non-member back then and that is when I began my study.

The reason their are a total of four of us on this board is that we sincerely studied the Catholic faith as Baptists and converted. We have been allowed to remain here and post.

Do you mean catholics are not allowed to post in the other denominations forum???

 

[Iconoclast]

Hang on a minute... you are contradicting yourself. Which is it - a repeated sacrifice or an unbloody re-offering? Be precise.



That's because you didn't ask me - you asked Walter. :thumbs:

WM

:laugh::laughpps...my bad...okay...i will ask you also:thumbs:

 

[Iconoclast]

So you say - but where's your proof? All I see is empty rhetoric that you probably got as talking points from someone who was just parroting that anti-Catholic line that they themselves accepted as fact from someone else. God gave us minds to think with - might I recommend that you use yours.

WM

Wm,

No talking points....just thinking out loud. i see no where in scripture where we are to look outside of scripture and depending on which history book we read...somehow then arrive at truth.
the word of God written is the sole authority for all faith and pracyice since tha Apostles completed the canon of scripture.

You cannot claim the church has been on track all along....well you can claim anything you want but you would not be accurate.

you probably got as talking points from someone who was just parroting that anti-Catholic line that they themselves accepted as fact from someone else. God gave us minds to think with - might I recommend that you use yours.

Wrong.....in fact ....i was trying to fight against scripture and God when he saved me....

You post that some post harsh things and that might be true to some extent, however many have not been exposed to the Rc teaching and rituals, candles, stations of the cross, the false little replica of the Ot tabernacle which was done away in Christ, at the cross.....

When they speak of that inner feeling of sickness and disgust, it is the Spirit being grieved over the false dead rituals...like Paul when he was at mars hill;

16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.

I have looked at Rc teaching, occasionally listen to catholic family radio, or catholic answers etc....I find if frustrating and sad.

 

[WestminsterMan]

:laugh::laughpps...my bad...okay...i will ask you also:thumbs:

Let me say it the bible way. I am saved... I am being saved... and I shall be saved.

WM

 

[Walter]

Let me say it the bible way. I am saved... I am being saved... and I shall be saved.

WM

:applause::applause:

 

[WestminsterMan]

Wm,

No talking points....just thinking out loud. i see no where in scripture where we are to look outside of scripture and depending on which history book we read...somehow then arrive at truth.
the word of God written is the sole authority for all faith and pracyice since tha Apostles completed the canon of scripture.

You cannot claim the church has been on track all along....well you can claim anything you want but you would not be accurate.
snip...

No I do not claim that; humans sin - even Popes. However, if you think that Jesus created the Church then you must believe Him when He said that the gates of Hell would not prevail against it - and it hasn't. He has preserved His church through all of this in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Notice the singular use of the word Church in scripture - not the plural use as in "churches".

I refernce history because it CLEARLY shows that there is an unbroken line of successors who handed on scripture and Traditions to God's people. One either believes that, or one must believe that God allowed christians throughout the first 1,500 years to be taught lies, and thus He sent them to hell because of it. I don't see it that way and there's just no historical evidence to show any Portestant existence before Luther.

You post that some post harsh things and that might be true to some extent, however many have not been exposed to the Rc teaching and rituals, candles, stations of the cross, the false little replica of the Ot tabernacle which was done away in Christ, at the cross.....

Again, that's your opinion and you are entittled to it.

When they speak of that inner feeling of sickness and disgust, it is the Spirit being grieved over the false dead rituals...like Paul when he was at mars hill;

16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.

I have looked at Rc teaching, occasionally listen to catholic family radio, or catholic answers etc....I find if frustrating and sad.

I'll bet you do, and so did I until I let the Holy Spirit point me where it would.

WM

 

[Walter]

Do you mean catholics are not allowed to post in the other denominations forum???

That is right. The exception is for Catholics who were not Catholics when they joined the board. In the case of the four of us that are here, we were all Baptists when we joined.

So, if you pose a question to Catholics and wonder why Catholics aren't quick to answer, that is why. It is not because there are no good Catholic answers or that Catholics 'have no interest in the things of God.'

I believe you are sincere in your desire to see Catholics come to saving faith in Jesus. As far as the 'cultural Catholics' out there. Go get 'em! I would much rather see them come to know Christ as Savior and Lord in a Protestant church than no church. Hopefully they will wake up from their sleep and find Christ in His Holy Catholic Church. For those of us who sincerely follow the teachings of our Church. 'We are saved, we are being saved, we will be saved.'

 

[Iconoclast]

No I do not claim that; humans sin - even Popes. However, if you think that Jesus created the Church then you must believe Him when He said that the gates of Hell would not prevail against it - and it hasn't. He has preserved His church through all of this in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Notice the singular use of the word Church in scripture - not the plural use as in "churches".

WM..
perhaps you missed these: So much for only one singular:thumbs:

Acts 9:31
Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.

Acts 15:41
And he went through Syria and Cilicia, confirming the churches.

Acts 16:5
And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.



Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.

Romans 16:16
Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

1 Corinthians 7:17
But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

1 Corinthians 11:16
But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

1 Corinthians 14:34
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

1 Corinthians 16:1
Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

1 Corinthians 16:19
The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.

2 Corinthians 8:1
Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia;

2 Corinthians 8:18
And we have sent with him the brother, whose praise is in the gospel throughout all the churches;

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

2 Corinthian s 8:23
Whether any do enquire of Titus, he is my partner and fellowhelper concerning you: or our brethren be enquired of, they are the messengers of the churches, and the glory of Christ.

2 Corinthians 8:24
Wherefore shew ye to them, and before the churches, the proof of your love, and of our boasting on your behalf.

2 Corinthians 11:8
I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.

2 Corinthians 11:28
Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.

2 Corinthians 12:13
For what is it wherein ye were inferior to other churches, except it be that I myself was not burdensome to you? forgive me this wrong.

Galatians 1:2
And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:

Galatians 1:22
And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:

1 Thessalonians 2:14
For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

2 Thessalonians 1:4
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

Revelation 1:4
John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Revelation 1:11
Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.


Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death

 

[Iconoclast]

I believe you are sincere in your desire to see Catholics come to saving faith in Jesus. As far as the 'cultural Catholics' out there. Go get 'em! I would much rather see them come to know Christ as Savior and Lord in a Protestant church than no church

Well we can agree here also....
I have found the most to be cultural catholics as you say....i travel in 48 states so i have a good sample to go by.

 

[Iconoclast]

That is right. The exception is for Catholics who were not Catholics when they joined the board. In the case of the four of us that are here, we were all Baptists when we joined.

So, if you pose a question to Catholics and wonder why Catholics aren't quick to answer, that is why. It is not because there are no good Catholic answers or that Catholics 'have no interest in the things of God.'

I believe you are sincere in your desire to see Catholics come to saving faith in Jesus. As far as the 'cultural Catholics' out there. Go get 'em! I would much rather see them come to know Christ as Savior and Lord in a Protestant church than no church. Hopefully they will wake up from their sleep and find Christ in His Holy Catholic Church. For those of us who sincerely follow the teachings of our Church. 'We are saved, we are being saved, we will be saved.'

I did not know this..thanks for telling me.

 

[WestminsterMan]

WM..
perhaps you missed these: So much for only one singular:thumbs:

Acts 9:31
Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.

Acts 15:41
And he went through Syria and Cilicia, confirming the churches.

Acts 16:5
And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.



Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.

Romans 16:16
Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

1 Corinthians 7:17
But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

1 Corinthians 11:16
But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

1 Corinthians 14:34
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

1 Corinthians 16:1
Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

1 Corinthians 16:19
The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.

2 Corinthians 8:1
Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia;

2 Corinthians 8:18
And we have sent with him the brother, whose praise is in the gospel throughout all the churches;

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

2 Corinthian s 8:23
Whether any do enquire of Titus, he is my partner and fellowhelper concerning you: or our brethren be enquired of, they are the messengers of the churches, and the glory of Christ.

2 Corinthians 8:24
Wherefore shew ye to them, and before the churches, the proof of your love, and of our boasting on your behalf.

2 Corinthians 11:8
I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.

2 Corinthians 11:28
Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.

2 Corinthians 12:13
For what is it wherein ye were inferior to other churches, except it be that I myself was not burdensome to you? forgive me this wrong.

Galatians 1:2
And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:

Galatians 1:22
And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:

1 Thessalonians 2:14
For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

2 Thessalonians 1:4
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

Revelation 1:4
John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Revelation 1:11
Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.


Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death

Perhaps you missed what Jesus said (and that was the context of my statement) "Upon the rock I will build my CHURCH..." If you had read what I said - really understood what I wrote - then you could have saved yourself a lot copy work. But thanks for posting none-the-less. AND, those were all part of the Catholic Church. Unlike the situation today where everytime someone gets irked at the pastor, they just move down the road and open up another.

Hmmm...

WM

 

[Iconoclast]

Perhaps you missed what Jesus said (and that was the context of my statement) "Upon the rock I will build my CHURCH..." If you had read what I said - really understood what I wrote - then you could have saved yourself a lot copy work. But thanks for posting none-the-less.

Hmmm...

WM

WM

i understood what you said exactly, but it was mistaken....

the one true church has never assembled yet.....it will assemble on the last day.

here is what you said;

However, if you think that Jesus created the Church then you must believe Him when He said that the gates of Hell would not prevail against it - and it hasn't. He has preserved His church through all of this in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Notice the singular use of the word Church in scripture - not the plural use as in "churches".

The one assembly..assembles on the last day....until that time there are plural churches as shown....built upon ;


20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

A church must hold to apostolic doctrine? I agree but who are you to determine what that apostolic doctrine is - are you in the line of succession back to the apostles who imparted apostolic doctrine to the Church? No, and to make such sweeping statements borders of laughable and is patently absurd. :laugh:


No one is in that mythical line, because such does not exist and never did. Those are the historical facts. Apostolic succession is a fable.


If one wants to read biased opinion, then your posts are well worth the time. Facts, on the other hand...

Look... you claim that history shows all christian churches were deliniated by the little "c" and that the RCC isn't apostolic but in the end, it makes no difference and here's why - you're wrong.

First, like it or not (and I'm sure that you don't) everyone was either Catholic, Muslim, or Buddhist before the Reformation - and that's a fact.



The earliest churches were "catholic" in one sense only, and that is the original meaning of the word "catholic". I know you must read later Romanist state churchism back into the early churches to maintain your fantasy, but don't try to pass fable off as fact.



Second, Church history does show with perfect clarity that line of apostolic succession from whence aposoltic doctrine comes, that you so "bloviatingly" deny - in other words, that big 'ol "C":



WM

Because of the length of your erroneous blather, I have given my first answers in blue within your quoted blather.

Before you try to lecture me on church history from your biased Romanist perspective, go out and get a doctorate in church history and theology as I have.

And thanks for proving that you have no case by quoting fathers from the late second century and later. I know that you can't base your views on scripture, so you have to use secondary, uninspired men.

Scripture blows the "Catholic" view of apostolic succession out of the water because there were no monarchial bishops as a third order of ministry in scripture. I have proven that many times. Romanist error cannot be proven by scripture. In fact, scripture refutes it, so people such as you have to resort to quotes 200 years and more removed from the time of the apostles to try and prove your vain traditions of men.

The truth is that the monarchial episcopate was a historical development which was not the general rule everywhere until the late second century. Anglicans, who hold to apostolic succession, admit as much. So, the line of such bishops can only be traced back to that time. And every such line is corrupt anyway, since it contains corrupt and ungodly bishops who were not even Christians.

The only way the RCC can maintain its traditions is to place them above scripture. In scripture, bishop/presbyter/elder/pastor/overseer were synonyms for one and the same office. So, the teaching of a line of monarchial bishops back to the apostles is patently false and nothing more than a fable.

Only a fool trusts in fables.