Pope Francis rejects Viri Probati for Amazon

[Particular]

Nope. We have these things spelled out. You just need better reading comprehension.

Council of Trent:

1. If anyone says that man is justified before God by his own works (whether done through the teaching of human nature or the law) without the grace of God through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema.
2. If anyone says that the grace of God through Jesus Christ is given only that man may live justly and merit eternal life, as if by free will (without grace) he could do both, let him be anathema.
3. If anyone says that without the inspiration and help of the Holy Ghost man can believe, hope, love or be penitent as he ought, so the grace of justification may be bestowed upon him, let him be anathema.

The small difference is you think God pulled the rug from under everyone's feet, so you are stuck in a accusatory state that is so bad you can't even name one legit elect living Christian other than yourself.

We simply sit back and ask well give us the scripture to support your claim and you give none.

This is what happens when someone tries to 1up humility with FALSE HUMILITY.

You wrote: "Acting rightly is the salvation."

You teach a gospel of self-righteous works without grace. You teach legalism (just as your church taught you).

Jesus taught that all whom the Father has given him will be saved and he will not lose one of them.

John 10:27-30 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”

Those whom the Father has chosen will hear his voice.

You cling to a twisted catechism and the perverted council of Trent while ignoring Christ Jesus who tells you that your works do not save you.

 

[Adonia]

We can decide this by scripture alone. No church catechisms needed. What say you? Remove your church teachings and speak scripture?

YOU decide by scripture YOURSELF which as we see leads YOU to a terrible place. Why should anyone believe YOUR interpretation? How come the Lutheran Church and all the other mainline protestant denominations have a different interpretation than you? They claim that they have the correct reading of the scriptures too. No, your reading of the word of God is definitely not the final word on the subject.

I look to the Christian Church that has existed here on earth and has been teaching the Holy Scriptures for some 2000 plus years. All the theologians, all the Bishops who have worked together to study and come up with the teachings of my Holy Church.

You on the other hand look to yourself and a sect that wasn't formed for some 1500 or so years. You can have that stuff, I'm not buying what you are trying to sell here.

 

[Particular]

YOU decide by scripture YOURSELF which as we see leads YOU to a terrible place. Why should anyone believe YOUR interpretation? How come the Lutheran Church and all the other mainline protestant denominations have a different interpretation than you? They claim that they have the correct reading of the scriptures too. No, your reading of the word of God is definitely not the final word on the subject.

I look to the Christian Church that has existed here on earth and has been teaching the Holy Scriptures for some 2000 plus years. All the theologians, all the Bishops who have worked together to study and come up with the teachings of my Holy Church.

You on the other hand look to yourself and a sect that wasn't formed for some 1500 or so years. You can have that stuff, I'm not buying what you are trying to sell here.

You think God saving by grace alone, through faith is a terrible place?

You think the King of Kings choosing whom he will save because He is the Sovereign King and has that authority is a terrible place?

You think that rebellious humans who have no capacity to save themselves or turn from their rebellion, but entirely are dependent upon God's mercy and outstretched grace to save them is a terrible place?

Instead, you think your own self-righteous actions and your own attempt to show remorse, causing God to react to your attempts by being merciful and gracious is a good place?

Really?

You and your church are trying to be saved by legalistic works. You fall utterly short and preach a false gospel. Such teaching is condemned by Paul in his letter to the Galatians.

 

[utilyan]

You wrote: "Acting rightly is the salvation."

You teach a gospel of self-righteous works without grace. You teach legalism (just as your church taught you).

Jesus taught that all whom the Father has given him will be saved and he will not lose one of them.

John 10:27-30 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”

Those whom the Father has chosen will hear his voice.

You cling to a twisted catechism and the perverted council of Trent while ignoring Christ Jesus who tells you that your works do not save you.

Being saved is not a trip to disneyland where you get everything you want.

It is coming into unity with Jesus Christ through him, in him and with him. Acting rightly is the salvation.


YOU THINK you will be allowed to SIN IN HEAVEN?

I'm giving the goal. And you are twisting it to a requirement.

Hate to break it to you.....you cannot sin in heaven.

 

[Particular]

Being saved is not a trip to disneyland where you get everything you want.

It is coming into unity with Jesus Christ through him, in him and with him. Acting rightly is the salvation.


YOU THINK you will be allowed to SIN IN HEAVEN?

I'm giving the goal. And you are twisting it to a requirement.

Hate to break it to you.....you cannot sin in heaven.

Being saved is having a holy God pluck you out of the pit of damnation in which you deserve to die.
Being saved is having a holy God, who owes you nothing and would still be fully loving if he left you to die in your sins, choose to graciously redeem you purely because he chose to do so.
Utilyan, Jesus tells me that in this life I will have many trials. Jesus tells me that the child God chooses will be disciplined. Jesus tells me that I will pick up my cross and follow him (not to be saved, but because I am saved).
Being saved is all God and nothing of me.
Not one child of God thinks as you have stated. Why, because the Bible doesn't teach such a thing.

The difference between you and me is that I take God's word seriously while you take your churches word seriously. Unfortunately for you, your church is seriously wrong.

 

[utilyan]

Being saved is having a holy God pluck you out of the pit of damnation in which you deserve to die.
Being saved is having a holy God, who owes you nothing and would still be fully loving if he left you to die in your sins, choose to graciously redeem you purely because he chose to do so.
Utilyan, Jesus tells me that in this life I will have many trials. Jesus tells me that the child God chooses will be disciplined. Jesus tells me that I will pick up my cross and follow him (not to be saved, but because I am saved).
Being saved is all God and nothing of me.
Not one child of God thinks as you have stated. Why, because the Bible doesn't teach such a thing.

The difference between you and me is that I take God's word seriously while you take your churches word seriously. Unfortunately for you, your church is seriously wrong.

You are right that is BEING saved.
Once the rescue is done. Acting rightly is the salvation. LOOK I am proven right. YOU provided ZERO SCRIPTURE.

"The difference between you and me is that I take God's word seriously while you take your churches word seriously. Unfortunately for you, your church is seriously wrong."
If think your church's word is a joke...... Time to move on.

Mine is united with God, when God speaks, the church has spoken. Stop your idolatrous loyalty to your joke church, find the real one.

 

[Particular]

You are right that is BEING saved.
Once the rescue is done. Acting rightly is the salvation. LOOK I am proven right. YOU provided ZERO SCRIPTURE.

"The difference between you and me is that I take God's word seriously while you take your churches word seriously. Unfortunately for you, your church is seriously wrong."
If think your church's word is a joke...... Time to move on.

Mine is united with God, when God speaks, the church has spoken. Stop your idolatrous loyalty to your joke church, find the real one.

No. Acting rightly is NOT the salvation.
What I presented is salvation.
What you are missing entirely is God's sanctification of his child...a child he says he will never leave nor forsake. Why? Because God chose that person to be his child. If God's child goes prodigal, that child will return home where his Father is waiting and watching.
Utilyan, you continually put your salvation upon your self as though you can do it. Here's truth. You cannot do it. You cannot save yourself.

What you teach is not taught by Jesus. You teach a false gospel and when scripture is shared, you reject it.

How can you, utilyan, claim you are saved? Based upon your own teaching, you cannot make the claim. All you can claim is that you are trying to eventually be saved.

 

[utilyan]

No. Acting rightly is NOT the salvation.
What I presented is salvation.
What you are missing entirely is God's sanctification of his child...a child he says he will never leave nor forsake. Why? Because God chose that person to be his child. If God's child goes prodigal, that child will return home where his Father is waiting and watching.
Utilyan, you continually put your salvation upon your self as though you can do it. Here's truth. You cannot do it. You cannot save yourself.

What you teach is not taught by Jesus. You teach a false gospel and when scripture is shared, you reject it.

How can you, utilyan, claim you are saved? Based upon your own teaching, you cannot make the claim. All you can claim is that you are trying to eventually be saved.

"Utilyan, you continually put your salvation upon your self as though you can do it. Here's truth. You cannot do it. You cannot save yourself."

I was commanded to LOVE GOD and LOVE NEIGHBOR. There is no commandment "save thy own rear!"

Don't presume I obsess and idolaterize salvation over God.

God commands me in Matthew 6 to pay no mind to the future, I got enough evil today.

Matthew 6
34“So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

You obsess in trying to convince everyone else you are saved because you lack the self-confidence to face the truth.

I call it having to check or verify a LACK of FAITH, I call it having to bring it up in EVERY conversation a LACK of FAITH.

Someone who actually TRUSTS GOD is going to act like it. FEARLESS. CALM and RELAXED. They cannot be shaken.

YOU don't even trust God loves your own child. You can't tell them God loves them.

 

[Particular]

I was commanded to LOVE GOD and LOVE NEIGHBOR. There is no commandment "save thy own rear!"

No one ever said there was that commandment.

Don't presume I obsess and idolaterize salvation over God.

I didn't. I just said that your own idea of salvation means that you can never actually say you are saved.

God commands me in Matthew 6 to pay no mind to the future, I got enough evil today.

Matthew 6
34“So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Indeed, we have no control. It is in God's hands.

You obsess in trying to convince everyone else you are saved because you lack the self-confidence to face the truth.

I don't have to convince anyone. I just believe what God tells me.

Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

I call it having to check or verify a LACK of FAITH, I call it having to bring it up in EVERY conversation a LACK of FAITH.

Call it what you wish. God has given me faith. He has brought me through many storms.
I bring up salvation because speaking God's word about his salvation and his amazing grace is good.

Someone who actually TRUSTS GOD is going to act like it. FEARLESS. CALM and RELAXED. They cannot be shaken.

You seem shaken, utilyan. I am calm and relaxed when I speak of God. He saved me without needing my assistance. God doesn't require me to do good works to be saved. He gave me faith to believe he has saved me. I work because faith gives me a great love for my King.

YOU don't even trust God loves your own child. You can't tell them God loves them.

I trust that God will do what is best. I tell my children of God's sacrifice for sinners. I call them to believe and repent. This is my duty. It is not my duty to save my kids. That is God's choice and I trust him entirely. I am at peace. I know my God has it all under control.

I wish you could say you are saved, utilyan. I know your teaching will not allow you to make that statement.
I can tell you that you will fall short even though you try extremely hard to please God.

 

[Adonia]

You think God saving by grace alone, through faith is a terrible place?

You think the King of Kings choosing whom he will save because He is the Sovereign King and has that authority is a terrible place?

You think that rebellious humans who have no capacity to save themselves or turn from their rebellion, but entirely are dependent upon God's mercy and outstretched grace to save them is a terrible place?

Instead, you think your own self-righteous actions and your own attempt to show remorse, causing God to react to your attempts by being merciful and gracious is a good place?

Really?

You and your church are trying to be saved by legalistic works. You fall utterly short and preach a false gospel. Such teaching is condemned by Paul in his letter to the Galatians.

Yes, you have twisted the Scriptures to your own destruction.

“…our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.” 2 Peter 3:15-16

That says it all about the thousands of sects that have arisen in the last 2000 plus years.

 

[Particular]

Yes, you have twisted the Scriptures to your own destruction.

“…our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.” 2 Peter 3:15-16

That says it all about the thousands of sects that have arisen in the last 2000 plus years.

Adonia, let us address scripture. At present the conversation is about the contradictions of the RCC catechism and the Pope's incapacity to see that God does not forbid married men from being teaching elders in the church and that the office of priest does not exist in the body of Christ.

You cannot find scripture that denies the position I hold regarding God's means of salvation. Instead you have asserted your church as infallible in its teaching, even though its own catechism contradicts itself.

Finally, you resort to an out of context quote from the Bible to proclaim your church correct. This only emphasizes how little you respect scripture as compared to your church, which is no longer connected to the head of Christ, but preaches a gospel of works.

 

[utilyan]

Adonia, let us address scripture. At present the conversation is about the contradictions of the RCC catechism and the Pope's incapacity to see that God does not forbid married men from being teaching elders in the church and that the office of priest does not exist in the body of Christ.

You cannot find scripture that denies the position I hold regarding God's means of salvation. Instead you have asserted your church as infallible in its teaching, even though its own catechism contradicts itself.

Finally, you resort to an out of context quote from the Bible to proclaim your church correct. This only emphasizes how little you respect scripture as compared to your church, which is no longer connected to the head of Christ, but preaches a gospel of works.

You preach God worships SATAN. You believe God bends over and kisses the Devils toes.

Unconditional hatred of people for no reason, no condition.

 

[Particular]

You preach God worships SATAN. You believe God bends over and kisses the Devils toes.

Unconditional hatred of people for no reason, no condition.

Share a quote where I preach what you claim I preach?

Utilyan, you have openly lied.

What you claim against me may be grounds for your discipline.

Can you tell us that you are saved, utilyan? Or do you just hope that you are "being" saved?

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, you have twisted the Scriptures to your own destruction.

“…our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.” 2 Peter 3:15-16

That says it all about the thousands of sects that have arisen in the last 2000 plus years.

And that passage sums up biggest Cult of all time, Rcc!

 

[Yeshua1]

Adonia, let us address scripture. At present the conversation is about the contradictions of the RCC catechism and the Pope's incapacity to see that God does not forbid married men from being teaching elders in the church and that the office of priest does not exist in the body of Christ.

You cannot find scripture that denies the position I hold regarding God's means of salvation. Instead you have asserted your church as infallible in its teaching, even though its own catechism contradicts itself.

Finally, you resort to an out of context quote from the Bible to proclaim your church correct. This only emphasizes how little you respect scripture as compared to your church, which is no longer connected to the head of Christ, but preaches a gospel of works.

To many Catholics, the RCC is God to them, and they take all RC dogma as "thus sayeth the Lord"

 

[Yeshua1]

You preach God worships SATAN. You believe God bends over and kisses the Devils toes.

Unconditional hatred of people for no reason, no condition.

Do we all deserve eternal hell?

 

[Yeshua1]

Share a quote where I preach what you claim I preach?

Utilyan, you have openly lied.

What you claim against me may be grounds for your discipline.

Can you tell us that you are saved, utilyan? Or do you just hope that you are "being" saved?

I do not know ANY really saved saint that would agree with what he posted there!

 

[Adonia]

Adonia, let us address scripture. At present the conversation is about the contradictions of the RCC catechism and the Pope's incapacity to see that God does not forbid married men from being teaching elders in the church and that the office of priest does not exist in the body of Christ.

Yes, let us address Scripture, specifically the parts you either ignore or interpret in error. Jesus did not just write a book for succeeding believers to figure out. No, he established a church here on earth that had real power to decide things, with leaders (Bishops) to do the deciding. This was accepted for millennia by virtually all those who claimed the title "Christian".

If the leader of the Catholic Church wanted to institute the discipline of celibacy, he had the authority to do so. Regarding priests, a priest is akin to your Pastor, except that he (the Priest) has been ordained by a Bishop who in turn was ordained by the Bishop before him, all the way back to the first ordinations done by the Apostles. Your Pastor on the other hand has no connection to that line of ordination.

You cannot find scripture that denies the position I hold regarding God's means of salvation. Instead you have asserted your church as infallible in its teaching, even though its own catechism contradicts itself.

Not so, you are wrong. If you think there are contradictions in the catechism, have you looked at the Scriptures lately? I can show you where Jesus says to love your enemies and then he says to get yourself a sword. You don't find a contradiction in those two teachings?

Finally, you resort to an out of context quote from the Bible to proclaim your church correct. This only emphasizes how little you respect scripture as compared to your church, which is no longer connected to the head of Christ, but preaches a gospel of works.

Once again, you are wrong.

 

[Alofa Atu]

What was Jesus' wife's name? ...

New Jerusalem, Ecclesia. It's a very pretty name, and she also has a nickname, "remnant", as she is a very small woman, compared to the largeness and greatness of her betrothed.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, let us address Scripture, specifically the parts you either ignore or interpret in error. Jesus did not just write a book for succeeding believers to figure out. No, he established a church here on earth that had real power to decide things, with leaders (Bishops) to do the deciding. This was accepted for millennia by virtually all those who claimed the title "Christian".

If the leader of the Catholic Church wanted to institute the discipline of celibacy, he had the authority to do so. Regarding priests, a priest is akin to your Pastor, except that he (the Priest) has been ordained by a Bishop who in turn was ordained by the Bishop before him, all the way back to the first ordinations done by the Apostles. Your Pastor on the other hand has no connection to that line of ordination.



Not so, you are wrong. If you think there are contradictions in the catechism, have you looked at the Scriptures lately? I can show you where Jesus says to love your enemies and then he says to get yourself a sword. You don't find a contradiction in those two teachings?



Once again, you are wrong.

The Church of Rome repudiated Pauline Justification at Council of Trent, have they ever overturned that?