Pope Sanctions Gay Clergy!

[BobRyan]

'The Adventist Church teaches that same-gender sexual activity is a sin, but same-gender sexual orientation is not.' .

Having a sinful nature is not a choice - it is a fact for all of us. We all need to be redeemed from it. You select one aspect of the sinful nature as if when we see the same thing about it - we are saying something different.

In fact our position is the same - HAVING the sinful nature of Romans 3 is not a sin - but it is a defect from which we will be redeemed as part of the Gospel.

Yielding to the sinful nature (whether it is on one of your topics or not) is the sin.

God says that as Christians we are to "take every THOUGHT captive to the obedience of Christ" 2Co 10:3-5 and we can do this because "The weapons of our warfare are DIVINELY powerful for the tearing down of strongholds" according to that text.

Hence "no gay lobby" in true Christianity.

Thus - you cannot blame the problem of the RCC and celibate clergy forming the "gay lobby" or caught in news reports actively engaged or caught in police reports actively engaged - on me - or on SDAs. Far better would it have been to allow them to marry and to keep their jobs if they so chose.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

As an FYI....Link to SNAP (Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests)

http://www.snapnetwork.org/

 

[Walter]

As an FYI . . . . link to Stop Baptists Predators

http://www.stopbaptistpredators.org/index.htm

They marry but abuses and cover-ups are still rampant in Baptist churches.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

As an FYI . . . . link to Stop Baptists Predators

http://www.stopbaptistpredators.org/index.htm

They marry but abuses and cover-ups are still rampant in Baptist churches.

Thats a good link ...is that limited to SBC or can I report a certain group of IFB predators?

 

[DHK]

As an FYI . . . . link to Stop Baptists Predators

http://www.stopbaptistpredators.org/index.htm

They marry but abuses and cover-ups are still rampant in Baptist churches.

Here is a quote from that link:

While Baptist church polity is messier and more confusing than Catholic polity, both traditions do share another commonality on the clergy child-abuse front – the primacy of orthodoxy, right belief, over orthopraxy, right behavior.


News stories have repeatedly portrayed Pope Benedict XVI, as a cardinal in Germany and an official at the Vatican, as being more interested in rooting out theological corruption than moral corruption of pedophile priests and their enablers. Called "God's Rottweiler," he was interested in punishing priests for theological differences with the church, such as liberation theologians, and turned a blind eye to priests who molested children.

Here is the difference that the author does not properly portray. Any pastor that is caught in the least offense (in the Baptist church (at least the ones I am familiar with): adultery, fornication, divorce, homosexuality, or immorality of any kind, or anything that brings a scandal to the church as a whole, he must step down as the pastor and probably will never be allowed to pastor again. He has brought blame upon himself, and a pastor "must first be found blameless."

Secondly, if it is a criminal offense, such as Pedophilia, he is immediately charged and the police are involved. He is not hidden by the church or moved to another parish as the RCC do. We don't hide or cover up sin. We recognize people are sinners, but we don't hide it. They pay for their offenses.

That is totally unlike the RCC where sin is hidden and not confessed; priests go to a different parish just to do the same heinous crimes all over again. This has been proven over and over again.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Here is the difference that the author does not properly portray. Any pastor that is caught in the least offense (in the Baptist church (at least the ones I am familiar with): adultery, fornication, divorce, homosexuality, or immorality of any kind, or anything that brings a scandal to the church as a whole, he must step down as the pastor and probably will never be allowed to pastor again. He has brought blame upon himself, and a pastor "must first be found blameless."

Secondly, if it is a criminal offense, such as Pedophilia, he is immediately charged and the police are involved. He is not hidden by the church or moved to another parish as the RCC do. We don't hide or cover up sin. We recognize people are sinners, but we don't hide it. They pay for their offenses.

That is totally unlike the RCC where sin is hidden and not confessed; priests go to a different parish just to do the same heinous crimes all over again. This has been proven over and over again.

True & here is some evidence to add to your point. Attached is a list of abusive RC Priests. Note Father Caparelli from Pennsylvania (Scranton Diocese)

Caparelli
Robert N. 1964 P Convicted Diocesan Originally reported to diocese in 1968. Abused several boys before being arrested in 1991. Sentenced 7/92 to 2 1/2 to 5 yrs prison. Another charge re abuse of 2nd youth added additional time to his sentence in 1993. He died in prison 12/94. Named in civil suits. Had been moved several times after diocese knew of his actions. 2 suits settled 1996. 1 man settled his 2005 lawsuit 01/07 for undisclosed sum.

This Priest roamed around my neighborhood, hunting little boys in playgrounds & outdoor basketball courts. Thank heavens I thought he was a creep & stayed far away from "Father Cappi". Father indeed, he knowingly was infected with the AIDS Virus & still abused neighborhood boys & he died in prison....still saying that he wasn't "THAT BAD". Hope he rots in hell!!!

http://bishop-accountability.org/member/psearch.jsp

 

[Walter]

Here is a quote from that link:
Here is the difference that the author does not properly portray. Any pastor that is caught in the least offense (in the Baptist church (at least the ones I am familiar with): adultery, fornication, divorce, homosexuality, or immorality of any kind, or anything that brings a scandal to the church as a whole, he must step down as the pastor and probably will never be allowed to pastor again. He has brought blame upon himself, and a pastor "must first be found blameless."

Secondly, if it is a criminal offense, such as Pedophilia, he is immediately charged and the police are involved. He is not hidden by the church or moved to another parish as the RCC do. We don't hide or cover up sin. We recognize people are sinners, but we don't hide it. They pay for their offenses.

That is totally unlike the RCC where sin is hidden and not confessed; priests go to a different parish just to do the same heinous crimes all over again. This has been proven over and over again.

YOU COVER-UP AND PROTECT THE MOLESTORS!! The website I provided show CASE after CASE of Baptist covering up and hiding their offending pastors. Baptists do EXACTLY what they accuse the Catholic Church of doing. My former Baptist church covered-up all the diddling our pastor and youth minister were doing for YEARS and some of the elders responsible for the cover up are still in positions of authority (Sunday School Superintendent, elder's, etc). It goes on in a lot of Baptists churches, you just deny the facts!

Go to the website and click on: Collusion and Cover-Ups WOW!!! Look at all those cover-ups!!!!!

 

[Walter]

True & here is some evidence to add to your point. Attached is a list of abusive RC Priests. Note Father Caparelli from Pennsylvania (Scranton Diocese)

Caparelli
Robert N. 1964 P Convicted Diocesan Originally reported to diocese in 1968. Abused several boys before being arrested in 1991. Sentenced 7/92 to 2 1/2 to 5 yrs prison. Another charge re abuse of 2nd youth added additional time to his sentence in 1993. He died in prison 12/94. Named in civil suits. Had been moved several times after diocese knew of his actions. 2 suits settled 1996. 1 man settled his 2005 lawsuit 01/07 for undisclosed sum.

This Priest roamed around my neighborhood, hunting little boys in playgrounds & outdoor basketball courts. Thank heavens I thought he was a creep & stayed far away from "Father Cappi". Father indeed, he knowingly was infected with the AIDS Virus & still abused neighborhood boys & he died in prison....still saying that he wasn't "THAT BAD". Hope he rots in hell!!!

http://bishop-accountability.org/member/psearch.jsp

Him and all the creepy Baptists child molesters can rot together!

 

[Walter]

Actually, EWF. You and I have a similar stance on abusers. They are scum and need to rot. I have helped to start two different Christian 12 Step recovery groups in my area and stood along side of one man who was helping to plant them in other local communities, with MUCH success. After two years and phenomenal growth of both programs that he and I were co-ministry leaders he finished his seminary training and was ordained as an 'Recovery Pastor' at his Church of God (Anderson, In). Our recovery programs were drawing more people than all the AA & NA meetings in the area combined. Not only that, but many people who had never darkened the doors of ANY church were attending and hearing about salvation through Christ.

Then I got up one morning and turned on the local news. My partner in this recovery minister had just been arrested for abusing his raping his daughter over a FIVE year period! Not just accusations but a confession to every charge. Some of the charges were so disgusting most papers would only refer to the violation as having included 'foreign objects'.

Can you imagine what this did for our recovery programs? Can you imagine the damage to the cause of Christ?

He was just sentenced to over twenty-five years but I understand he is already an assistant to the chaplain where he's doing his time.

Charged: Alton “Gene” Dorrough, 62, pastor, Church of God of Exeter, Exeter, California; founder, Mirror Image Ministries, Inc.; and police chaplain, Exeter Police Department; “with 14 counts of lewd and lascivious acts on a minor under the age of 14, four counts of using force during a sex crime against a minor, four counts of lewd and lascivious acts on a minor 14 or 15 years of age, and one count of oral copulation on a minor,” reports the Visalia Times-Delta. The Tulare County Sheriff’s Department reports that detectives “responded to Exeter Police Department were a female juvenile victim wanted to report that a known suspect had been sexually abusing her for several years. … During the course of the investigation the suspect was arrested … and was booked at the Tulare County Main Jail where he is being held in lieu of $1,050,000.00 bail.” The front page of the Mirror Image Ministries website says: “Founded on August 6, 2010, Mirror Image Ministries, Inc. is a non-profit ministry. … Gene and Linda came to Exeter, CA in November of 2005, knowing that they were to start a Celebrate Recovery program in Exeter. Celebrate Recovery is a Christ Centered 12-step program for hurts, habits and hang-ups. The program started in March of 2006 at the Church of God of Exeter, and is still going strong with new Ministry Leaders in place, and Gene and Linda becoming the Recovery Pastors in March of 2011. The vision for Mirror Image Ministries started with the idea of needing more meeting rooms for Celebrate Recovery…” Dorrough and his wife are the parents of a daughter.

http://home.conservativebabylon.com/2012/05/10/black-collar-crime-round-up-may-10-2012/

 

[DHK]

YOU COVER-UP AND PROTECT THE MOLESTORS!! The website I provided show CASE after CASE of Baptist covering up and hiding their offending pastors. Baptists do EXACTLY what they accuse the Catholic Church of doing. My former Baptist church covered-up all the diddling our pastor and youth minister were doing for YEARS and some of the elders responsible for the cover up are still in positions of authority (Sunday School Superintendent, elder's, etc). It goes on in a lot of Baptists churches, you just deny the facts!

Go to the website and click on: Collusion and Cover-Ups WOW!!! Look at all those cover-ups!!!!!

That is a lie. We do not. Remember the site you posted is only siting references from the SBC, one of many kinds of Baptists. I am not one of them. And quite frankly I would question the sources he uses.
The churches I am associated deal with sin.
If it is of a criminal nature the police are called.
If not, the principles of Matthew 18 are followed, along with those of 1Cor.5:1ff, even to the extent of excommunication, or as the Bible bluntly puts it--"turning one over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh..."
Church discipline is a real thing in our church.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Him and all the creepy Baptists child molesters can rot together!

Amen...:thumbs:

 

[Walter]

That is a lie. We do not. Remember the site you posted is only siting references from the SBC, one of many kinds of Baptists. I am not one of them. And quite frankly I would question the sources he uses.
The churches I am associated deal with sin. No, the video proves you are guilty of cover ups!!If it is of a criminal nature the police are called.
If not, the principles of Matthew 18 are followed, along with those of 1Cor.5:1ff, even to the extent of excommunication, or as the Bible bluntly puts it--"turning one over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh..."
Church discipline is a real thing in our church.

No, not a lie. Watch this video that millions have watched about YOUR IFB cover-ups!! I saw it myself on 20/20. Physical and sexual abuse covered-up by you IFB's. The child's pastor told the child to 'forgive and forget'. Wow, DHK! Watch the whole video, DHK. Must be Catholics behind the production of it and, of course, it's ALL lies!

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/indepe...pline-call-tough-love-abuse/story?id=13310172

Lots more video's showing cover-ups by IFB's and even children being encouraged to have abortions or get punched in the stomach to get rid of 'it'!

 

[Melanie]

Appears we are going around in circles now. I think we all agree that any criminal behaviour by anyone in authority particularly over children and vulnerable people is revolting and should be punished by law.

Sadly, there will always be predators who will infiltrate into positions of trust to gratify their deviancy. It is up to us as citizens of whichever nation to make it as difficult as possible for those criminals.

 

[Walter]

Appears we are going around in circles now. I think we all agree that any criminal behaviour by anyone in authority particularly over children and vulnerable people is revolting and should be punished by law.

Sadly, there will always be predators who will infiltrate into positions of trust to gratify their deviancy. It is up to us as citizens of whichever nation to make it as difficult as possible for those criminals.

I think we all agree on that, Melonie. I think what we don't agree on is that this kind of criminal activity is going on in all denominations (including IFB churches). Some seem to think their very tiny corner of Christianity never has cover-ups and rarely has to deal with such problems. We see evidence to the contrary. I have been hearing of child abuse going on in IFB congregations for years. They are only fooling themselves that they 'don't cover-up'.

 

[Melanie]

Walter, I agree. I was still at school when one of the priests that we had dealings with was arrested for child abuse....it was not covered up, he was quite a young man....but it was a shocker none the less. He certainly was jailed and I think the term is "defrocked".

But...the thread was about the pope making a statement about homosexuality. Of course, if he said "all such persons should be hanged on sight", he would have been decried at being lacking in charity.

 

[BobRyan]

The current "scandal" is that Bennedict and others were simply shuffling from perish to perish those who had been caught but were not reported to the police.

The more important issue is "how did they get into that situation" to start with?

And the answer obviously has to do with the "celibate or lose your job" idea that is not supported by 1Cor 9.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

No, not a lie. Watch this video that millions have watched about YOUR IFB cover-ups!! I saw it myself on 20/20. Physical and sexual abuse covered-up by you IFB's.

Here again is the "twist" that tries to avoid the point by gross misdirection.

The problem/complaint with the RCC is not that --they would all be sinless if they were not engaged in the "continue to be celibate or lose your job" man made tradition. The problem is that their man-made-tradition is producing MORE problems along the line of abuse than would be there otherwise.

As already pointed out - there a structures to mitigate (lessen not eliminate) the problem with single priests and single nuns -- they don't shower together, room together, no coed monasteries (if they are smart).

But not so with the gay scenario. For that the only defense is the strong reaction against the gay agenda by the group NOT "the gay lobby" opposite of it.

Because in the gay scenario - you get all of the above mixing and then demand "celibate or lose your job". The result being "times of not celibate and asking for forgiveness" in news report after news report.

You know - the "obvious".

So when you respond with "there was an IFB that made a mistake" misses the point. We are not claiming that no RCC priest would ever make a mistake if this "celibate or lose your job" man-made tradition were abolished.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Here again is the "twist" that tries to avoid the point by gross misdirection.

The problem/complaint with the RCC is not that --they would all be sinless if they were not engaged in the "continue to be celibate or lose your job" man made tradition. The problem is that their man-made-tradition is producing MORE problems along the line of abuse than would be there otherwise.

As already pointed out - there a structures to mitigate (lessen not eliminate) the problem with single priests and single nuns -- they don't shower together, room together, no coed monasteries (if they are smart).

But not so with the gay scenario. For that the only defense is the strong reaction against the gay agenda by the group NOT "the gay lobby" opposite of it.

Because in the gay scenario - you get all of the above mixing and then demand "celibate or lose your job". The result being "times of not celibate and asking for forgiveness" in news report after news report.

You know - the "obvious".

So when you respond with "there was an IFB that made a mistake" misses the point. We are not claiming that no RCC priest would ever make a mistake if this "celibate or lose your job" man-made tradition were abolished.

in Christ,

Bob

RIGHT Bob! Once again, I had a long conversation with a homosexual man who I worked with (at the time we were both Catholics) & he laid out in very explicit terms how the RCC could be used (indeed was being used) as a underground Homosexual lifestyle shelter. Honestly at the time I did not want to hear it....that my church could have been used for anything less than a spiritual refuge from the world was most difficult for me to take. Now I didn't deny the mans story, I just tucked it away as a FYI thing.....Then, the Saint Joseph pedophile incident' s in Mendam NJ happened, & then it all broke loose. The Delbarton Mens Catholic Prep School & then the whistle blowers thank God stepped up to the plate & took these perverts down & with it all the secrecy & deception.
It all suddenly made sense, what this homosexual said was true.... and the end result is that there is a pervasive degenerate underground of pedophile clergy.
Not good news for an organization who wants to promote themselves as "the True Church!"

 

[DHK]

No, not a lie. Watch this video that millions have watched about YOUR IFB cover-ups!! I saw it myself on 20/20. Physical and sexual abuse covered-up by you IFB's. The child's pastor told the child to 'forgive and forget'. Wow, DHK! Watch the whole video, DHK. Must be Catholics behind the production of it and, of course, it's ALL lies!

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/indepe...pline-call-tough-love-abuse/story?id=13310172

Lots more video's showing cover-ups by IFB's and even children being encouraged to have abortions or get punched in the stomach to get rid of 'it'!

There is a problem in many households with corporal punishment. I used it on my children; my parents used it on me. I believe it is Biblical. The Bible verse quoted is accurate. Our society is becoming so liberal that they are trying to make spanking a criminal offense. This is anti-biblical. There is line between biblical punishment (discipline with spanking) and beating. The girl's testimony is one-sided. The pictures are obviously exaggerated.

They threw a picture in there of a preacher preaching on discipline who was making a strong point. It was out of context. Many preachers preach like that. They made him out to be a raving lunatic. That wasn't a fair representation of him in the midst of a sermon. Any fool can see that. The liberal media love to do those things.

I have consistently told you that we take the same steps followed in Matthew 18. What does it say.
1. Go to him/her.
2. If she does not confess or repent take one or two others with you.
3. If she does not repent, bring it to the church.
This was obviously at the third stage.
She was before the church and had her chance to defend herself against a charge of immorality. Otherwise like Matthew 18 says discipline would be taken against her, and her membership would be revoked (possibly her parents also) depending on the circumstances.

See what happened. The man is in jail. He is not shipped off to another parish like the practice of the RCC. He pays for his crime. Do priests go to jail? Rarely. They seek protection under the cover of the RCC. That is a travesty. And under that cover they perpetuate the same crimes over and over and over again.

Who said "forgive and forget"? Was it just the Pope that said those words?
If a man has repented are we not to forgive?
Why is it wrong to forgive a repentant man no matter what the sin is? That is the strength of Christian character and grace of God in a born again believer. It helps one get along with their life.

That it happened to her a second time by another man is atrocious. The fact that she is pregnant by him and under legal age should be enough evidence to put the guy in jail, which I hope happened. It doesn't say. But I can almost guarantee that would not happen in the Catholic Church where justice is rarely carried out.

These are isolated cases. I don't defend them. I say when such things do happen justice is meted out and such cases are taken to court where the offender pays for his crime. That is the difference between baptist churches and the Catholics.

 

[BobRyan]

RIGHT Bob! Once again, I had a long conversation with a homosexual man who I worked with (at the time we were both Catholics) & he laid out in very explicit terms how the RCC could be used (indeed was being used) as a underground Homosexual lifestyle shelter.

Another interesting bit of data to the list you provided.

The Vatican refused to allow its officials to testify before an Irish commission investigating the clerical abuse of children and was angered when they were summoned from Rome, US embassy cables released by WikiLeaks reveal.
Requests for information from the 2009 Murphy commission into sexual and physical abuse by clergy "offended many in the Vatican" who felt that the Irish government had "failed to respect and protect Vatican sovereignty during the investigations", a cable says.
Despite the lack of co-operation from the Vatican, the commission was able to substantiate many of the claims and concluded that some bishops had tried to cover up abuse, putting the interests of the Catholic church ahead of those of the victims.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/dec/10/wikileaks-vatican-child-sex-abuse-investigation

The point is that they could have saved themselves a lot of grief if they were not so interested in the unbiblical "celibate or lose your job" threat against their own priests.

For example - suppose that RCC came clean on this next week and announced that they consider all vows of celibacy to be void and contrary to the Bible since they are made under the unbiblical conditions of "you can't serve in the clergy unless you take a vow of celibacy".

And then state that priests may serve - married or not from this day onward and that no priest may make a vow of celibacy except personally and privately to God - no need or benefit in informing the Church. So that they may get married or not - as they wish from this day forward without any loss in their role as clergy.

Does anyone here "really think" that "no priests or nuns" would choose to continue to serve - but in a married status instead of celibate? Really?

I think we all know the answer to that one.

This RCC problem cannot be blamed on the IFB or the SDA denominations nor can you equivocate and say that if any other denomination experienced any issue with anyone in clergy then we need not "notice" what the poor policy of demanding a celibate clergy is doing to the RCC all across the news.

in Christ,

Bob