Pope says evolution, Big Bang are real

[Bro. Curtis]

And there is nothing in scripture about the earth being round….

Isaiah 40:22.

Wrong again.

 

[Jedi Knight]

And there is nothing in scripture about the earth being round,

He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. Isaiah 40:22. Amen Brother Curtis I was thinking the same thing!

 

[Crabtownboy]

He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. Isaiah 40:22. Amen Brother Curtis I was thinking the same thing!

Well now that is interesting. If you take circle as earth, literally, then you have to take grasshoppers literally also. Can't mix a literal word and another as metaphor in the same sentence.

Again, it is in the interpretation. I see no proof in this verse saying the earth is round. The circle around earth means space or heaven.The flat earth sits surrounded by heaven or space.

Daniel shows the earth as flat:

"Daniel 4:10-11. In Daniel, the king “saw a tree of great height at the centre of the earth

If a tree is at the center and the earth is a sphere, then it would be impossible for the king to see the king from the surface were he was.

Isaiah 11:12 "And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."

There can be no four corners in a round or spherical earth.

Revelation 7:1 "And after these things I saw four angels standing on four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree." As with the Daniel quote, this cannot be taken literally; the events described in Revelation are a series of visions, rather than an accurate description of the world. Another interpretation of this verse is that four corners of the earth don't refer to literal four corners but to cardinal directions, which is further supported by the description of the four winds which are commonly referenced by their cardinal direction.

Again, this cannot be taken literally as what is states is literally impossible.

There is no incompatibility between the Bible and proven scientific, geologic, or biologic facts. There is confusion by many who try to argue otherwise and they do the cause of Christ much harm.

 

[Jedi Knight]

Well now that is interesting. If you take circle as earth, literally, then you have to take grasshoppers literally also. Can't mix a literal word and another as metaphor in the same sentence.

Again, it is in the interpretation. I see no proof in this verse saying the earth is round. The circle around earth means space or heaven.The flat earth sits surrounded by heaven or space.

Daniel shows the earth as flat:

"Daniel 4:10-11. In Daniel, the king “saw a tree of great height at the centre of the earth

If a tree is at the center and the earth is a sphere, then it would be impossible for the king to see the king from the surface were he was.

Isaiah 11:12 "And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."

There can be no four corners in a round or spherical earth.

Revelation 7:1 "And after these things I saw four angels standing on four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree." As with the Daniel quote, this cannot be taken literally; the events described in Revelation are a series of visions, rather than an accurate description of the world. Another interpretation of this verse is that four corners of the earth don't refer to literal four corners but to cardinal directions, which is further supported by the description of the four winds which are commonly referenced by their cardinal direction.

Again, this cannot be taken literally as what is states is literally impossible.

There is no incompatibility between the Bible and proven scientific, geologic, or biologic facts. There is confusion by many who try to argue otherwise and they do the cause of Christ much harm.

He compares people but not the Earth being circular......nice try.

 

[PreachTony]

Well now that is interesting. If you take circle as earth, literally, then you have to take grasshoppers literally also. Can't mix a literal word and another as metaphor in the same sentence.

You can't mix literal speech with metaphorical speech? You must speak in very boring sentences, then, eh?

Again, it is in the interpretation. I see no proof in this verse saying the earth is round. The circle around earth means space or heaven.The flat earth sits surrounded by heaven or space.

You're making as much of an interpretational leap as we are if you say that circle means "space or heaven." If that is the case, then please point out another place in the scriptures where space or heaven are referred to by the term "circle of the earth."

Daniel shows the earth as flat:

"Daniel 4:10-11. In Daniel, the king “saw a tree of great height at the centre of the earth

If a tree is at the center and the earth is a sphere, then it would be impossible for the king to see the king from the surface were he was.

In the good old King James Version, the verse you refer to reads "Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great."

First, you cannot equate a vision or dream with a natural, physical state, as these are completely different realms of definition. The great tree was seen in a vision/dream and it was seen in the "midst of the earth." Completely different meaning, unless we want obtuseness to win the day (which sadly happens often enough).

Isaiah 11:12 "And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."

There can be no four corners in a round or spherical earth.

You never heard of "figures of speech," have you?

Revelation 7:1 "And after these things I saw four angels standing on four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree." As with the Daniel quote, this cannot be taken literally; the events described in Revelation are a series of visions, rather than an accurate description of the world. Another interpretation of this verse is that four corners of the earth don't refer to literal four corners but to cardinal directions, which is further supported by the description of the four winds which are commonly referenced by their cardinal direction.

Again, it's a commonplace figure of speech.

Again, this cannot be taken literally as what is states is literally impossible.

There is no incompatibility between the Bible and proven scientific, geologic, or biologic facts. There is confusion by many who try to argue otherwise and they do the cause of Christ much harm.

"For with God nothing shall be impossible." - Luke 1:37

 

[quantumfaith]

If evolution is the method God used to create humanity then the Bible is wrong, the Gospel is a lie and God is a liar.

The question is this: When did death enter the world according to evolution and when did death enter the world according to Scripture.

Death has been in existence from the earliset moments of creation. That does NOT make the Gospel a lie.

 

[Crabtownboy]

"For with God nothing shall be impossible." - Luke 1:37

But not all things are possible for man, such as seeing a tree in the middle of the earth, unless the earth is flat ... which it is not.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

In the good old King James Version, the verse you refer to reads "Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great."

First, you cannot equate a vision or dream with a natural, physical state, as these are completely different realms of definition. The great tree was seen in a vision/dream and it was seen in the "midst of the earth." Completely different meaning, unless we want obtuseness to win the day (which sadly happens often enough).

Kinda like talking to a brick wall, eh ?

 

[PreachTony]

Kinda like talking to a brick wall, eh ?

Seeing his last reply...yeah. He seems determined to ignore that it's a vision and is instead stressing a literal interpretation.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Seeing his last reply...yeah. He seems determined to ignore that it's a vision and is instead stressing a literal interpretation.

Not at all, was point out the fallacy of an earlier reply.

But all evidence shows that thiestic evolution is correct. Now I have no idea all the various aspects of how God created the universe, the world and all the life we see. He did it. That is the important thing. It does great harm to the message of Christ to try to convince people that what is obviously incorrect is the only way to believe. It only drives people away.

People are not saved by what they believe about creation. People are saved through Christ.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Seeing his last reply...yeah. He seems determined to ignore that it's a vision and is instead stressing a literal interpretation.

Now he's saying sticking to scripture damages the work of Christ. Or his message. Or something.

 

[annsni]

Death has been in existence from the earliset moments of creation. That does NOT make the Gospel a lie.

It sure does.

Romans 5:

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men[e] because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

18 Therefore, as one trespass[f] led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness[g] leads to justification and life for all men. 19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. 20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Death entered by one man. Who was that one man? Was death in existence before man came? Then that contradicts what the Bible says.

 

[gigabyte71]

It sure does.

Romans 5:



Death entered by one man. Who was that one man? Was death in existence before man came? Then that contradicts what the Bible says.

I don't believe in evolution, but is this referring to the physical death we all experience, or the spiritual death that occurred in the fall?

 

[Crabtownboy]

Death coming into the world does not speak to how God created the world.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

It sure does. Man bringing death into the world through sin absolutely lines up with the Genesis account. It could not have happened that way with theistic evolution.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I don't believe in evolution, but is this referring to the physical death we all experience, or the spiritual death that occurred in the fall?

One and the same, in this case. Adam talked to God, God sought him out, so we can't separate the two.

 

[quantumfaith]

It sure does. Man bringing death into the world through sin absolutely lines up with the Genesis account. It could not have happened that way with theistic evolution.

No it lines up with your account and views

 

[gigabyte71]

One and the same, in this case. Adam talked to God, God sought him out, so we can't separate the two.

Then why did God ensure he couldn't eat of the tree of life after the fall? Would have not then have lived forever, but been spiritually dead?

 

[Revmitchell]

Then why did God ensure he couldn't eat of the tree of life after the fall? Would have not then have lived forever, but been spiritually dead?

Because God kicked them out of the garden which was a place that intimate fellowship.

 

[gigabyte71]

Because God kicked them out of the garden which was a place that intimate fellowship.

So it wasn't for the reason God said?

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. ~ Genesis 3:22-24

And again, I don't believe in Theistic evolution, I don't see how anyone can believe the two can coexist.