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Pope

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by steaver, Apr 2, 2005.

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  1. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    The Pope had the privelege to lead more Priests and Nuns than there are baptists in the USA ... and maybe even in the world ...

    Should I be jealous of that power?
    Or, should I be respectful of God and His predestination of the Pope ...
     
    #21 El_Guero, Apr 2, 2005
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I am an ex-Catholic. I do not remember when the last Pope died. Thus I had not thought through this aspect of Catholicism which is invading the media right now.
    DHK
     
    #22 DHK, Apr 2, 2005
  3. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    If God let me be Pope for a month - I would die a happy man ... And a bunch of Catholics would be dunked ...
     
    #23 El_Guero, Apr 2, 2005
  4. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    DHK
    When Josef Stalin died, there was RC prayer worldwide for the soul of that villain. It simply is the Roman Catholic way. The RCC believes that each true pope is in the end elected by God to hold that office, it is however not assumed that each pope is by definition heavenbound. The notion is that some end up in hell, others go through purgatory before entering Heaven.

    El_Guero
    "Should I be jealous of that power?"
    "
    When I was young I fantasized about being the pope a couple of times. I've never had daydreams about being in the position Billy Graham, or Jerry Fallwell. Being the pope is simply cooler.
     
    #24 mioque, Apr 2, 2005
  5. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    I would not mind being utilized by God like Reverend Graham, but the Pope may lead more people into Heaven than even our Brother Graham

    ... No matter how few you want to count, there will be a BUNCH of Catholics in Heaven ...
     
    #25 El_Guero, Apr 2, 2005
  6. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    The Pope uses the title Vicarius Christi, meaning, the vicar of Jesus Christ. The papacy first used this title in the eighth century; earlier they used the title vicar of St. Peter or vicarius principis apostolorum, the vicar of the chief of the apostles. The distinction in the claim for authority will be immediately apparent.
    a vicar is anyone acting as a substitute or agent for a superior
    http://www.answers.com/topic/vicar

    Even by the dictionary definition the pope, being the vicar of Christ, is in the place of Christ. How can one being in the very place of Christ, need prayer for his soul? Again I ask, has the Catholic Church no assurance, that even this pope (of whom there is already talk of canonization) that he will gain entrance into heaven?? Is the eternal welfare of his soul that precarious that so many masses world-wide have to be said for him, and so many prayers must be offered up for him, in order to make sure that he makes it into heaven. Is there no assurance among the Catholics, even among their beloved leader--the substitute of Christ himself--that he will go to heaven? Amazing!

    I am thankful that I know for sure that if I were to die today I would go straight to heaven. My sins are all forgiven by the blood of the lamb, and Jesus himself has given me the gift of eternal life. Hallelujah!
    DHK
     
    #26 DHK, Apr 2, 2005
  7. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    I am a Baptist ... From a Baptist family ...

    You are from a Catholic background ... you should be able to explain to me what is being felt by the Catholic people.
     
    #27 El_Guero, Apr 2, 2005
  8. atestring

    atestring New Member

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    Regardless of how one feels,
    There should be respect for the dead and honor for a great man like Pope John Paul II.
    I loved him and pray God 's peace upon all my Roman Catholic Brothers and Sisters.
     
    #28 atestring, Apr 2, 2005
  9. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    Atestring,

    Gotta agree with that ...
     
    #29 El_Guero, Apr 2, 2005
  10. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    I'm curious, are you guys Jack Chick fans?
     
    #30 Gold Dragon, Apr 2, 2005
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Catholics pray "for" And "to" the dead. That is their way - they have been taught that this is the right practice. That means that not only are Catholics now praying FOR the Pope - they are now praying TO the Pope!

    This is the nature of the problem.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #31 BobRyan, Apr 2, 2005
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Has Jack lost credibility now with Baptists?

    Is he the only one besides the Catholic reformers and Catholic protesters (Luther, Calvlin etc) that thinks that the RCC is identified in Rev 12, 13 and 17??

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #32 BobRyan, Apr 2, 2005
  13. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    Baptists have been the closest to the NT church.

    Baptists never protested the RCC.

    That does not mean that we AGREED.

    However, I find that recent converts from Catholicism tend to be reactionary ...

    I am not and never have been Catholic, nor has my family for 200 to 400 years ... My ancestors have been Baptist in whole for close to a century. And the significant portion for several centuries.

    Luther was a good Catholic priest and so were Calvin and Swingli ...
     
    #33 El_Guero, Apr 2, 2005
  14. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth" (Rev 17:9)

    I have read many commentaries which say it is a known fact that Rome is called the city of seven hills. They give sources, I don't have them at my finger tips.

    What other superpower religion is sitting in Rome that could have an impact over the entire world that is foretold in the Scriptures?

    We know from scripture that the antichrist will sit in charge over a one world religion and government. He comes in like a lamb in the name of peace and unites the world's religions bringing them all together as one. This is the only way to have peace, if all the religions accept each other as being of God and for God. No more killing over religion.

    Who better to do this than a pope or at least someone the pope places his stamp of approval on?

    I heard a talking head earlier say that this latest pope has started the ball rolling bringing different religions together. Embracing those in Judaism, Muslims, etc, etc. Basically declaring that we can all live together in peace, afterall, we are all desiring to serve God, right? He said that the next pope must continue what John Paul began in bringing the religions of the world together. Jesus never taught this! He said... "I am the way and the truth and the life. No man cometh unto the Father but by me". No Jesus, No salvation!

    Bill Oreilly, when he gets into these conversations with guest about only one way to heaven, he likes to brag how he likes his religion (Catholic) because it allows a loop hole which gets around the Jesus is the only way passage. Not sure what he means. He doesn't know much when it comes to the scriptures.

    That is why I say, how will these multitudes which hang on every word or wave a pope gives know if the antichrist does use the RCC to enter into power? They don't know these popes personally. They simply do what they have been taught to do, which is listen to what he says because he speaks on behalf of Christ.

    What is going to happen if one of these popes one day not only declares that he is the vicar for Christ but declares that he is Christ and performs the necessary miracles that one would assume only God could do which would appear to prove it!?

    Catholics really need to take a step back from all the hipe and think about how dangerously vounerable the RCC system is going to be for the antichrist which is to come. I truly believe that this system has been built on this earth just for this purpose. Could be wrong, but all the signs sure point her direction.

    Think about this. The rapture takes place. Some Catholics are gone but most remain. Most just say they are catholic simply because they were born catholic. Kinda like a birth right but not "born again". I did not say all! But most will be left behind and will be wondering what in the world is going on! Up steps antichrist and declares that he is Christ and has removed all the riff-raff (he will need to say something about all the missing people). If it is a pope or one who the pope approves of they will believe whatever he says because, well, he is the pope. Just a scary thought!

    I had a former pastor who said that he prayed often for the pope to get saved. He said, can you imagine how many lost souls could be won to Christ if a person with the power of a pope would become enlightened to the truth about born again salvation and begin to preach it from such a position!

    I don't know about the saved part, but wow what a platform to preach from that Jesus Christ is the only way to God and it is through faith in his blood sacrifice alone which saves! That would be powerful!

    I suppose he would get thrown out though before he even got started.

    Well I rambled on enough and probably upset a few of my catholic friends. So I will let it go at that.

    God Bless!
     
    #34 steaver, Apr 2, 2005
  15. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    Has Jack lost credibility now with Baptists?</font>[/QUOTE]I wouldn't be surprised if he was popular with Baptists. He isn't popular with this one.

     
    #35 Gold Dragon, Apr 2, 2005
  16. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    I heard his name many times but never read anything he has written.

    God Bless! [​IMG]
     
    #36 steaver, Apr 2, 2005
  17. Rachel

    Rachel New Member

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    Another thing about how this pope has tried to bring the differnt religions together.....a priest said on the news today (and he was pretty happy about this) that this pope said we don't need to convert the jewish people, that they are our elder brother's?? Is this true?? Does anyone know if he believed the jews (or anyone with faith in something) are going to Heaven even without accepting Jesus as their Savior?

    Rachel
     
    #37 Rachel, Apr 3, 2005
  18. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    DHK
    Answers.com got one of the details wrong prior to the 8th century Vicarius Christi could refer to any bishops not just the pope. That title wasn't created by the papacy it's application of it was limited by them.
    Tertullianus is apparently the person who invented the title.

    "Even by the dictionary definition the pope, being the vicar of Christ, is in the place of Christ. How can one being in the very place of Christ, need prayer for his soul?"
    "
    Your perception of the term vicar needs a slight adjustment.
    Christ is king and the pope is his steward is basically the RC position.

    "Again I ask, has the Catholic Church no assurance, that even this pope (of whom there is already talk of canonization) that he will gain entrance into heaven??"
    "
    In case you haven't noticed, all this praying and the masses is at least as much done for the folks back on earth as it is done for the late pope. They're saying goodby to him. They are grieving.
     
    #38 mioque, Apr 3, 2005
  19. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    Bob
    "Has Jack lost credibility now with Baptists?"
    "
    The good news is that he has declined in influence. There is a lot wrong with the RCC but Chick was often making up problems instead focussing on the issues that were there.

    Steaver
    You a stereotypical fundie baptist US-ian who never read a Chick tract? Impossible!
    :eek: :eek: :eek:

    "I have read many commentaries which say it is a known fact that Rome is called the city of seven hills."
    "
    That can be said about a number of cities, I live in one, no it's not Rome, yes it was around when revelation was written.
    Just pointing out that your reading of events might be wrong.

    "Think about this. The rapture takes place. Some Catholics are gone but most remain."
    "
    Think about this, you believe that you'll be up in the clouds looking down, enjoying the massacres like it was some sort of pay per view event, when that happens.
     
    #39 mioque, Apr 3, 2005
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Bob asks

    "Has Jack lost credibility now with Baptists?"

    Is he now the ONLY ONE among Baptists that views the RCC as the cuprit in Rev 12, 13 and 17 as did the reformers?


    Certainly if you are a Catholic it is good news.

    What about the answer to the question above? Have all Baptists now parted ways with the Catholic Reformers like Luther, Calvin, Huss, Jerome and other leaders like Wesley -- or is it just you??

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #40 BobRyan, Apr 3, 2005
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