Post tribulation arguments

[Darrell C]

And I will just point out these responses are typical of those who disrupt.

At this point, the Topic of the OP is forgotten, all that is addressed is not Doctrinal, but personal, and what usually happens is when the lack of self control on the part of the disruptors reaches it's typical creat...

...the thread is closed.

I would ask the Staff not to do that this time, but let us examine this issue in hopes that the continual pattern of this kind of behavior might finally stop.

do not worry I will get to your cyber bullying of BW318 again later on today...

Actually, that is not possible, as there is no bullying but a straight-forward address of the disruption caused in the derailing of this thread.

And Staff permitting, that is going to be addressed.

I will not only show your shameful posts to this holy woman but will expose your bankrupt theology as well.....

Not sure how "holy" false charges are.

And that is why I stepped in and addressed that false premise, which even now...neither of you are willing to admit, but compound your error (and BW is given the benefit of the doubt as she has not responded and we can assume she is busy right now) with this charade of "exposure."

But what is exposed is that your fascination with this woman blinds you to what is really going on. Because of this you cannot see the false premise which derailed discussion and has resulted in animosity.

Holy?

Perhaps in your version.

by the way...she did offer on the OP ....before your buddy derailed yet another thread......

No, she did not. Her first post was given, and it had nothing to do with the OP.

And what you said, amigo, is this...


Originally Posted by Iconoclast View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by blessedwife318 View Post
20 plus years of trying and no one has proven the pre-trib rapture to me. But The OP was looking for arguments against the Post Trib view and I gave them one as I also do not believe in a Post-Trib Rapture.

She had already responded to the OP and gave a reason before the thread was derailed....she had to pause...[a parenthesis in the threadto address the falsehoods.


Is this honest?

She had not already responded...before the thread was derailed. The thread was already being derailed and she contributed to that with an off topic post that was not only irrelevant but did not convey what she was responding to.

It was a false argument based on a false premise and it was simply for the purpose of turning the conversation to her pet peeves.

Those are the facts.

you did offer on the OP...a couple of times....I offered once as did BW.

Now that is true (excepting reference to BW "offering" to the OP) and can be supported with the Public Record, but you still continue to misrepresent the facts and perpetuate your truth with what is actually true.

I have to drive and then deal with a family matter,

Drive careful, and may God keep the beasts from your path.

Just because we are antagonists doesn't mean I have no concern for you, but, the opposite is actually true.

but then I will address your unwarranted attack on the godly sister.

No, actually you won't, because I make no unwarranted attacks...on anyone.

My treatment of a member may be perceived as such, but, every response to any given member is going to be on their terms, their level, with previous encounters considered.

For BW, my concern for her is being sucked into a pack mentality that many suffer from, and instead of learning to rightly divide, is mentored in biting and devouring.

For you, my concern would be in regards to your priorities, as well as your refusal to consider the reasons that support a differing view and the reasons others would disagree with your view.

It is critical for all of us not to just condemn those of other beliefs, but to understand the basis for those beliefs. When we do this, not only will we gain a compassion and understanding that is Christ-like, but, we may actually learn something along the way.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Posts are disappearing from all over the board



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I doubt that very much.

What do you base this charge on?


God bless.

 

[McCree79]

I doubt that very much.

What do you base this charge on?


God bless.

That they are falling off. Ask Martin, Rippon, or Icon. They have seen posts disappear. Rev Mitchell had post disappear and then comeback. My have disappeared and cameback. You can see me and Martin talking about it on the pre- NASB95 thread.

*****correction, it is the thread on "sarx"*****

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[McCree79]

I doubt that very much.

What do you base this charge on?


God bless.

DHK has noticed the issue as well. It may not be removing posts, but placing them on other threads as DHK noted on another thread....

I also made a response here and it ended up in the money forum, which I quickly deleted. Something strange going on here.

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[Darrell C]

Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
She is one of the primary derailers.

The OP asks that the derailing stop...





The response:



And this is typical.

And your quarterback's first post?



Now, your statement in this post, where you are supposedly exposing the truth?





Where is the truth in this, Iconoclast?

Where is the OP responded to, at all...by BW?


God bless.

She responded in at least 61,63....I believe one other time also....

First, that doesn't change the fact that she had not "already responded," which are your words to alleviate her guilt for her disruption and derailing of the thread.

Secondly, let's look at those "responses:"

Originally Posted by Iconoclast
....yes. ..it is dishonest even you could say shameful....but I enjoy your solid posting very much to bring a reality check to this.off course discussion.
It was to deal with post trib objections...

Well as far as the topic goes I think the strongest argument is that no one knows the day or the hour and it would be too easy for anyone just to count forward 7 years from the making of the covenant.

You "enjoy her solid posting," lol, which is irrelevant to the discussion. So you enjoy her derailing the thread.

Right?

And you think false arguments based on false premise which are themselves irrelevant is "solid posting?"

I believe you do.

Post #63:

Originally Posted by revmwc
No one knows the day nor the hour of the rapture. However, revelation clearly states that the beast, the false prophet and all the armies of the world are gathered together to fight against the one on the white horse which is the Lord Jesus. How do they know to gather there to fight Him?

Yeah that's just another reason that the post trib rapture doesn't work because the armies gathering together would definitely be a clue that the rapture is coming very soon.

Now this would be considered on topic, but we are examining your statement "she had already responded to the OP" which we have already seen is not true.

Did she enter into discussion because the topic interested her? Doesn't seem to have...


First response:

Originally Posted by DHK View Post
same old; same old. A lie often repeated does not make it a truth.

Just because you don't believe what Darby taught, does not mean its a lie that he taught the church was a parentheses in God's program. I was taught this at my dispensationalist Bible College.

Second...

Originally Posted by revmwc View Post
OR continues to spout from his belief of a parenthisis church. While overlooking God's plan was always to establish that church. God in His foreknowledge knew Israel would reject their Messisah and the church would be ushered in. God who revealed to Daniel that the Messiah would come and be cut off that is rejected would Coe back and establish His Kingdom. Jesus who stated that upon the faith of the little rock He would establish His church knew that is had foreknowledge of the establishment of the church told the disciples that. But OR is hung up on his belief in a parenthesis church keeps spouting off about it.

OR does not believe in a parentheses church. He is pointing out correctly that John Darby taught that the church was a parentheses in God's program. I'm glad to see you disagree with John Darby on that issue.

Third...

Originally Posted by revmwc View Post
I have read very little of Darby's work. Nothing spiritual that happens occurs without God's predestined plan which includes the church. Which includes the pre-tribulation snatching away of that church the Brideof Christ. That includes the time to follow the Snatching away which is the seven year tribulatilon, culminating with the second comiing and Christ 1000 year reign

Well I disagree with your view on the rapture but I do agree with your view that God predestined everything including the church. So lets keep this discussion honest and not accuse other poster of things they don't believe. OR does not believe that the church is a parentheses and if you read his post you would see he finds that idea as repugnant.

Fourth post...

Originally Posted by blessedwife318 View Post
Just because you don't believe what Darby taught, does not mean its a lie that he taught the church was a parentheses in God's program. I was taught this at my dispensationalist Bible College.

Originally Posted by Iconoclast View Post
..... yes indeed that's the heart of the teaching

Yes I know. One thing I really appreciate about the Bible College I want to is that they were honest about the history of Dispensationalism and what it taught. It's been amazing to me since I graduated how many want to hide that history and attack those that present the true history. That was one of the major things that lead me away from the dispensationalist camp. Why would they not be honest if they truly believed it was true.

Now, you will have to show me how she had "already responded to the OP" before derailing.

It is an instigated derailment meant to turn the conversation into an argument. In view it seems defending her friends takes precedence to the topic. So it is with you.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

That they are falling off. Ask Martin, Rippon, or Icon. They have seen posts disappear. Rev Mitchell had post disappear and then comeback. My have disappeared and cameback. You can see me and Martin talking about it on the pre- NASB95 thread.

*****correction, it is the thread on "sarx"*****

Sent from my LGLS990 using Tapatalk

DHK has noticed the issue as well. It may not be removing posts, but placing them on other threads as DHK noted on another thread....



Sent from my LGLS990 using Tapatalk

It is likely user error, though the forum does get slow at times. However, I have not seen any post that I have gotten published disappear, and I just wanted to make sure impropriety on behalf of the Staff wasn't being implied. I would not expect that at this Forum.

God bless.

 

[kyredneck]

Posts are disappearing from all over the board...

Tyndale (Brother Glen) had two entire threads, topic rebuilding the temple, 'disappear' only yesterday.

 

[McCree79]

It is likely user error, though the forum does get slow at times. However, I have not seen any post that I have gotten published disappear, and I just wanted to make sure impropriety on behalf of the Staff wasn't being implied. I would not expect that at this Forum.

God bless.

No....not saying a mod is doing it. Just that the site is having issues. People are posting and losing their posts.

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[Darrell C]

Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
The "truth" you declare is not true, and I challenge blessedwife to own up to the fact that DHK was erroneously charged with saying...




Perhaps if she does, she might actually help you see you are in error yourself.

What will it be, BW...truth or friendship.

And I will just say, Iconoclast, that you are giving the impression of infatuation with this member. I am not charging you with that, just saying you are giving that impression. Your fascination with what she has to say coupled with the fact that you don't even bother to consider what is being said...

...raises questions. And I wonder if your wife and her husband (if married) would appreciate this undue fascination.





No, just like you, she creates a false argument and then goes on in an attempt to justify her charge.

She is arguing with herself.

Just as you are.

This is the same disruption you and your friends have been creating on this forum for some time. You derail the topic of the thread and turn it to what you really want to rail against.

Go start your own forum. You obviously have no respect for the other members or staff on this forum, so why not make your little club legitimate. I will even suggest a name: W.A.R. (We are Revilers). Maybe W.O.R.M. (We Offer Reformation Madness).



Okay, just a little humor, but the fact is...nobody cares about your vendetta against people you don't know, and your confusion about Theologies you think you understand. Your rejection of the distinction between Israel and the Church which is clearly presented in Scripture is ludicrous. Your hatred against people who understand that is atrocious. Your incessant disruption among those who sincerely want to understand these issues so they can make a reasoned decision and draw logical conclusions...is satanic.

Sounds harsh, but only Satan wants to keep people from fulfilling this:


Malachi 3:16

King James Version (KJV)

16 Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.



God bless.

While I am sure BW318 is a godly woman.....I am also sure that blessed husband 31 is the only person whom God has ordained to explore such a relationship with her.

Doesn't change the fact that you need to be careful about how you come across to the public.

You are making statements that have already been shown to be in error, such as attributing honesty to a clearly exposed false argument based on a false premise.

God has provided me a godly wife also and I do not look for anyone else but Mrs Clast.

Does Mrs. Clast read your posts? Would there be a possibility of jealousy if she were to do so?

And no aspersion is being cast on anyone, only an attempt to point out we must be careful in our relationships on the Net.

I told you I will get to your unfortunate posts later on.....probably after 8 or so tonight.

Unfortunate for you, of course.

BW has posted with a solid Christian ethic...

It is not a solid Christian ethic to first disregard Forum etiquette and rules by falsely charging others with what they have not said in an attempt to derail a discussion that prior to that remained on topic, then refuse to repent of that error due to pride. And it is not a solid Christian ethic to support those who do.

as does Annsi, Scarlett O, and a few others like Amy G.....

Relevance?

Seeking out support for yourself now?

Your cowardly attack where you are so full of yourself was quite shameful.

Take it as you will, just be ready to substantiate your charges.

I will show that in detail as well as your bogus theology...scattered among some good verses...

Actually, you won't, because your motivation is biased and in error.

As far as my theology, if you could put you emotions and personality issues aside long enough to actually discuss Theology, then you might have a basis for saying you will expose my Theology as bogus.

Do not worry....maybe I will start a new thread about failed posts. ...why does it happen.

Here is a suggestion for the title:

Darrel C. needs help...II.

lol

I do need help, assuredly, just not the help you think, lol.

What I need help in is trying to make sound and beneficial Doctrinal Discussion a pattern that replaces the school-yard mentality we see so prevalent on forums these days.

When the Doctrine and the Theology become the focus, disruption of the kind you and your friends cause on a continual basis will begin to cease.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Tyndale (Brother Glen) had two entire threads, topic rebuilding the temple, 'disappear' only yesterday.

No....not saying a mod is doing it. Just that the site is having issues. People are posting and losing their posts.

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God is good all the time, isn't He?




God bless.

 

[DHK]

Now all that leads us to this: if you get Israel right you will get eschatology right. If you don't get Israel right you will never get eschatology right. Never.
here is John M...and here is a reply;
http://kimriddlebarger.squarespace.com/a-reply-to-john-macarthur/

From your link:
http://kimriddlebarger.squarespace.com/a-reply-to-john-macarthur/
I quote to you:

“Now that leads to my title: `Why Every Self-Respecting Calvinist Is a Premillennialist’ [laughter and applause] Now it's too late for Calvin, but it's not too late for the rest of you. And if Calvin were here he would join our movement. [laughter]”

This man has lost all respect with me. He has no credibility whatsoever. His sole purpose in writing is to discredit MacArthur at any cost. His writing is caustic, demeaning, and meant to ridicule. It is not objective at all.

Have you read Calvin's works Icon? If you have you will note that he is simply writing after the rude manner that Calvin wrote. Regenerated people don't write that way.
You ought to look up Peter Ruckman's writings on the KJV. See the manner in which he writes as he defends the KJV. I put your friend in that camp. He has no credibility with me.

 

[Darrell C]

Just wanted to sneak this in:

One argument used to support the Post Tribulation Rapture might be seen in the argument that the Rapture of the Church cannot precede the coming of Antichrist, based on this text:


2 Thessalonians 2

King James Version (KJV)

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


The premise to be considered is that the "coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him" refers to the rapture, and I agree with that, but, I do not agree with the reasoning which causes conflict in Scripture to arise, meaning, we can make a number of good arguments that the Rapture of the Church taught by Paul simply cannot take place at the end of the Tribulation, so, if this refutes those arguments and shows it does, we have Scripture combatting Scripture.

So we have to figure out where our Post-Tribulation brethren err.



This is offered only for the purpose of encouraging discussion of the point, and is not meant to be a detailed treatment.

Having said that, I will simply suggest that what Paul is saying is "Do not be worried that you have missed the Rapture, because if that were the case, then we would be in the Tribulation."

And that is what he is addressing, their fear that the Tribulation foretold had already started.

In view here are two events:


2 Thessalonians 2

King James Version (KJV)

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


The first is a reference to the Rapture, the second is a mention of the Day of the Lord.

Even the New King James adds the footnote...


2 Thessalonians 2:2

New King James Version (NKJV)

2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[a] had come.


Footnotes:
a.2 Thessalonians 2:2 NU-Text reads the Lord.


...that in the NU-Text the word in view is Lord.

So do we reject all other reasoning concerning the Pre-Tribulation Rapture based on one passage some interpret to mean the Rapture, rather than the Day of the Lord cannot occur until Antichrist appears, or do w consider that these people thought they had missed the Rapture and were in the time prophesied which is known as the Day of the Lord?


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

This man has lost all respect with me. He has no credibility whatsoever. His sole purpose in writing is to discredit MacArthur at any cost. His writing is caustic, demeaning, and meant to ridicule. It is not objective at all.

Another that has sought to discredit MacArthur, who is considered a Reformed Theologian and speaks at Reformed Conferences, is Dr. Michael Brown, a charismatic that I believe to be a sincere brother, but staunchly defensive of the Distinctives he holds to.

His response to MacArthur's "Strange Fire" is a legitimate attempt to justify a doctrinal position/s, but, it lacks what is needful, which is a direct discussion between the antagonists themselves. I would love to see this.


God bless.

 

[blessedwife318]

On finally what ever issues are going on with the website seem to be resolved and I was finally able to see most of the post. I know a few have been lost including a couple of mind but I think I got the gist of what was said.

DC as my husband pointed out in a lost post my speech needs to be seasoned with grace and some of my later post to you were more snarky then they should have been and I apologize for that.

Icon my husband especially appreciate your defense of me, and sees no fascination from you toward me, as he has read this thread as well.
My husband has the next two weeks off so we are going to be enjoying a little vacation so I will be bowing out for now as I feel that I have said all I need to say and the record speaks for itself.

 

[Iconoclast]

From your link:
http://kimriddlebarger.squarespace.com/a-reply-to-john-macarthur/
I quote to you:

This man has lost all respect with me. He has no credibility whatsoever. His sole purpose in writing is to discredit MacArthur at any cost. His writing is caustic, demeaning, and meant to ridicule. It is not objective at all.

Lets see if what you say is accurate???

As we have come to expect of him, Dr. MacArthur spoke with great passion, covered much ground quickly, and had a great deal to say. No question, Dr. MacArthur commands authority. One can easily see why Dr. MacArthur is so widely-respected. When it comes to the gospel, he’s on the side of the angels. When it comes to eschatology, however, I must beg to differ.


As usual....you do not get it:thumbs::thumbs::laugh:

 

[Iconoclast]

On finally what ever issues are going on with the website seem to be resolved and I was finally able to see most of the post. I know a few have been lost including a couple of mind but I think I got the gist of what was said.

this was no accident:thumbs:

DC as my husband pointed out in a lost post my speech needs to be seasoned with grace and some of my later post to you were more snarky then they should have been and I apologize for that.

Your posts were great....I am a cheerleader:laugh:

Icon my husband especially appreciate your defense of me, and sees no fascination from you toward me, as he has read this thread as well.

Well...I do have a certain fascination with godly persons, men or women who know the scriptures.

I defend any Christian woman who is being bullied . If your husband posted actively I would stand back and watch him correct these misguided persons.

Mr's Clast is the only woman for me despite the evil insinuations of foolish posters who are trying to cover their own sin.

My husband has the next two weeks off so we are going to be enjoying a little vacation so I will be bowing out for now as I feel that I have said all I need to say and the record speaks for itself

.
Enjoy your vacation. I enjoyed your posting , I have had several disappear as you have.

I believe there is dishonesty going on posts have been deleted....

Just yesterday a lengthy post of mine disappeared.....also I was sent 3 pm from a poster.....I tried to respond to the first one...and all 3 disappeared.:laugh:

 

[blessedwife318]

I believe there is dishonesty going on posts have been deleted....

Just yesterday a lengthy post of mine disappeared.....also I was sent 3 pm from a poster.....I tried to respond to the first one...and all 3 disappeared.[emoji23]

Just popping in to share my husband suggestion. Save all post on a word document so if it gets deleted you can just repost it.

 

[Iconoclast]

Darrell C

The "truth" you declare is not true, and I challenge blessedwife to own up to the fact that DHK was erroneously charged with saying

...

She spoke the truth about DHK's error as it was He who derailing the thread...not her.....she corrected his error...he already was off topic which he does quite often even though he lectures us not to do it.

And I will just say, Iconoclast, that you are giving the impression of infatuation with this member.

Only in your sin tainted thoughts.

I am not charging you with that,

Really:laugh: So... .if I say to you your defense of DHK gives the impression that you have a budding bromance with him.....[not that I am charging you with that}...that would be okay? or fine to post? then repeat it a second time??? This is very slimey and has no place being posted, but now I recall that is how you operate.

just saying you are giving that impression. Your fascination with what she has to say coupled with the fact that you don't even bother to consider what is being said...

only to you evidently.....BW and her husband know nothing about your foul thoughts.

...raises questions. And I wonder if your wife and her husband (if married) would appreciate this undue fascination.

Perhaps you have this kind of struggle in your life, so it crosses your mind, it had not crossed anyone else's mind

No, just like you, she creates a false argument and then goes on in an attempt to justify her charge.

You are trying to cover for DHK here. She called him on it and quite correctly.

She is arguing with herself.

She stated truth...

Just as you are.

baseless charge as you have an agenda...

This is the same disruption you and your friends have been creating on this forum for some time

.

Here the true agenda is exposed. You are frustrated as all the other Cals destroy your carnal reasoning. I understand:wavey: I have seen this many times.

You derail the topic of the thread and turn it to what you really want to rail against.

That is DHK' M.O. .... I have derailed a thread or two however.....in the same way usually DHK posts something false that he claims is indisputable:laugh:...it is always proved wrong.

Go start your own forum.

You obviously have no respect for the other members or staff on this forum

,

I get along fine with every other moderator since Skandelon left town, DHK wears two hats..... and when he wears his anti cal hatred hat...he gets ripped up....not him personally, but his false theories.

so why not make your little club legitimate. I will even suggest a name: W.A.R. (We are Revilers). Maybe W.O.R.M. (We Offer Reformation Madness).

well again.... you do not grasp the teaching so you attack, no surprise.

Okay, just a little humor, but the fact is...nobody cares about your vendetta against people you don't know, and your confusion about Theologies you think you understand.

I hate false teaching and caricatures of true doctrine, deliberate lies and falsehoods...this kind of sad posting is instigated by your side , and its carnal tactics. Most people are bored by your tactics and ignore them...I respond .

Your rejection of the distinction between Israel and the Church which is clearly presented in Scripture is ludicrous.

That is one of the keys that is disputed. Your proud boasting..."saying"
[which is clearly presented in scripture} is not the final word....what is clear in scripture is this;
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Your hatred against people who understand that is atrocious

.
I have no hatred of them as I was taught those falsehoods at one time.

Your incessant disruption among those who sincerely want to understand these issues so they can make a reasoned decision and draw logical conclusions...is satanic.

Another ungodly attack by you. I do not think BB rules allow for this kind of ungodly expression....but it will get a pass:laugh:

Sounds harsh, but only Satan wants to keep people from fulfilling this:

Harsh....no....just your usual foul posting.

God bless

.

You insinuate I have inappropriate interest in another poster, then say I am satanic....so you can save you trite little God bless as it rings hollow.

 

[Iconoclast]

Just popping in to share my husband suggestion. Save all post on a word document so if it gets deleted you can just repost it.

Yes...good idea...but sad on a "Christian board we have to think of such things

 

[Iconoclast]

Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

It appears this entire passage refers to the rapture, an event that we have no idea when it will take place. For in such an hour as you think not the Son of man comes.

Those who were taken away by the flood were judged...not raptured:laugh:
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.