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Pot Planning to Call Kettle Black

Eric B

Active Member
Site Supporter
So, what do you see as the real problem?
I would say this was more on the ball:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=66856

People in debates like this will always deflect attention away from the super-rich on the premise that they earned it and should be "free", but regardless, they are making hundreds of times more than they did generations ago, and many of them are proably also mixed in with the world economy. A lot of money is taken out of the country, and they don't even have to pay taxes on it (more than making up for whatever "high taxes" they pay here). So wealth is being "redstributed"; but not where you think. I guess the problem is, that an upward flow is seen as natural, where the liberals try to curb this unnaturally through taxing and programs. So one side favors the natural redistribution, and opposes the unatural redistribution. However, it is still redistribution, and money is not limitless.

So the conservatives will tell their followers it is all taxes, and then the focus usually ends up shifted to single minority mothers, and all of these "fat poor in the ghetto with a car and electronics who don't want to work"; etc. and now, the Mexican immigrants. Particularly under the premise of accusing the liberals of trying to keep them enslaved, or garner votes. Then, statistics are brought in; the denial of race suddenly stops, and we are told "see; that's the facts!"
Regardless of all of this; the end result is that the focus is constantly being shifted to those groups. The Appalachians might eventually be brought up in defense, and then you never hear about the govt. waste that benefits others, such as the $400 screwdrivers, and many other ridiculous contracts and projects. The liberals are always being condemned for "social programs" more than anything else (even abortion and gay rights I don't hear as much on anymore, like we just gave up on that stuff).
This is why complaining of taxes gets suspected of being racist. It is taken as "code language"; right or wrong. Some today might not mean it that way, but the rhetoric never really made a clear distance from the past where many did appear to be basing it on race. It sounds like the same thing.

On the other side; it is true that many liberals and groups like the NAACP, Jackson, etc. are still pointing their followers to race, or suggesting the more direct forms of redistribution.
So then this further keeps the conservatives fixated on that stuff, and the battle goes on. Meanwhile, the problems also go on, as both sides are just blaming each other. Conservatives don't seem to be happy with much of anybody anymore, regarding even most Republicans as sold out to liberal Democrat "big govt".

If the entire political system across both parties has gone so off track and unconstitutional, no matter how much people scream and protest, then it looks like something bigger than us, and something definitely bigger than some measley social programs.
 

Dragoon68

Active Member
The "code language" I'm hearing is that we need to just keep letting the federal government grow and grow and grow - keep funding it with our taxes - so it can meet more and more and more demands - redefined as needs - least we be labeled as racists by interfering with the benevolent liberals who are so generous - wasteful - with our earnings. Yes indeed, there's a lot of "code language" used in this racket!
 

JohnDeereFan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
On what basis do you say this? They do have pictures there, even if it's not the videos people are saying don't exist.

So, if I were to put on a Hitler costume and walk into a Baptist church, would that mean that Baptists are Nazis?
 

Eric B

Active Member
Site Supporter
So, if I were to put on a Hitler costume and walk into a Baptist church, would that mean that Baptists are Nazis?
Do you have any evidence that that is the case in those pictures? For one thing, if someone were to do that, wouldn't the people in the Church quickly confront him, so that to anyone taking a picture, it would be obvious that he was not apart of the Church?

The "code language" I'm hearing is that we need to just keep letting the federal government grow and grow and grow - keep funding it with our taxes - so it can meet more and more and more demands - redefined as needs - least we be labeled as racists by interfering with the benevolent liberals who are so generous - wasteful - with our earnings. Yes indeed, there's a lot of "code language" used in this racket!
The growth of the government may be one problem; but it is just that - one problem. And not likely the main problem. Just a distraction among some.
Yes, the liberals might throw up race, but then so do the conservatives. Look at how race was infused into this class discussion, again, under the premise of a criticism of the liberals' motives http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1570400&postcount=6 This seems to be what looms the largest on people's minds when it comes to "government waste". They have to prove that it is really harmful to minorities. Again, what about all the other waste?

Of course, the main thing stoking the anger on your side now, being the health care bill, which is also said over there to be some luxury people think they are entitled to.

What I'm saying is that it's time to stop focusing on that, as if that's really where all your money is going.

Just funny, even as I write, a story on this hedge fund that will drive up chocolate prices.

http://thecynicaleconomist.com/?p=15476
original source:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e50feefc-9120-11df-b297-00144feab49a.html

I recently debated with someone elsewhere who claimed prices only rise (and quality/quantity drop) because of taxes and unions. Those factors have nothing to do with this.
 

Dragoon68

Active Member
The original post was to point out that the NAACP is attempting to use race - as it always does - to defeat totally unrelated efforts of the Tea Party. Making excuses for the NAACP doesn't change that neither does pointing out that others may also use race in their arguments from time to time. Let's call it what it is - condemn it for what it is - and stop bickering over unrelated details.
 
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Eric B

Active Member
Site Supporter
I thought the point of the OP was just to relay a current event and relate it as an example of them using race. So then, it's really just an occasion to take a shot at the organization for a general accusation, and thus it doesn't make a difference if the accusation might not be totally accurate this time; it is still "no excuse" for all the supposed other times.

BTW, this morning, ABC's This Week covered the issue in their "Round Table".
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/07/roundtable-tea-party-vs-naacp.html


George Will made the point of there being no recording of the supposed verbal attack against a congressman. They did not deny the pictures, however. And if the pictures are true (at least one of them even having the N word), then it's not hard to believe that someone, somewhere probably did say that to the congressman. The pictures should be enough.

Biden was on earlier, making the point of it being elements in the party (which need to be confronted), not an accusation of the whole party.

The point is not to make "excuses" for one side. I believe both sides have a political agenda, and a fault on either side, as well as truth on either side, does not make one side all right, and the other all wrong. (The clarifying of which makes it look like one is "defending" the side being made all wrong and attacking the one made all right).
 

Eric B

Active Member
Site Supporter

rbell

Active Member
George Will made the point of there being no recording of the supposed verbal attack against a congressman. They did not deny the pictures, however. And if the pictures are true (at least one of them even having the N word), then it's not hard to believe that someone, somewhere probably did say that to the congressman. The pictures should be enough.

Enough for what? To prove that, out of millions of TP participants or sympathizers, that an idiot has been spotted? It is laughable to compare the NAA-A-A-P's actions with the Tea Party's.

The former has statements from its leaders to its formally gathered members making false claims--claims that are racially motivated. The latter--at best--shows (possible) footage of an idiot with racist views. (Keep in mind, we don't know if it's even authentic. And also keep in mind, the "verbal attack" on the Congressman & his aides has not been corroborated--even though dozens of cameras were at the event).

So....systemic, public statements from leaders, versus possible stupid statements from a face in the crowd. Sorry...but in your attempt to be "even-handed," you're ignoring facts.

Biden was on earlier, making the point of it being elements in the party (which need to be confronted), not an accusation of the whole party.

Funny how Biden never seems to find the time to address the over-the-top statements from his side of the aisel. Of course, if folks want to believe conservatives are raid

The point is not to make "excuses" for one side. I believe both sides have a political agenda, and a fault on either side, as well as truth on either side, does not make one side all right, and the other all wrong. (The clarifying of which makes it look like one is "defending" the side being made all wrong and attacking the one made all right).


I will agree that both sides need to speak the truth.

But in no way can I go along with, "they're both equally to blame."

The NAA-A-A-P's behavior in recent days has been more egregious and more systemic than the Tea Party's. Leadership for the NAACP versus individual rank and file of the Tea Party.
 

rbell

Active Member
Now this is the best example of what this whole discussion is about:

SOURCE
SOURCE2

Representative Sheila Jackson Lee, a Democratic race-baiter with a propensity to make profoundly stupid remarks, addressed the NAACP. Here's her words:

All those who wore sheets a long time ago have now lifted them off and started wearing [applause], uh, clothing, uh, with a name, say, I am part of the tea party. Don’t you be fooled. [voices: "That's right.", applause] Those who used to wear sheets are now being able to walk down the aisle and speak as a patriot because you will not speak loudly about the lack of integrity of this movement. Don’t let anybody tell you that those who spit on us as we were walking to vote on a health care bill for all of America or those who said Congresswoman Jackson-Lee’s braids were too tight in her hair had anything to do with justice and equality and empowerment of the American people. Don’t let them fool you on that [applause]….

And what reaction does she get from this tripe?

Well...enthusiastic support. So much for "color blind."

The line about about folks spitting on members of congress prior to the health care vote? Absolute lie. $100,000 rewards are available for anyone who can prove these allegations are true: those rewards remain unclaimed.

So enough with the "tea party and NAACP are just alike, just on opposite political sides."

No, they're not. Not even close.


Just for fun, here are some other brilliant statements by Ms. Lee (Jackson-Lee? How do you refer to hyphenated women? Oh well, it doesn't matter...if I do it wrong, it's because I'm a racist anyway. She'll probably sue me for a civil rights violation):
  • Lee "educated" Congress on the current levels of cooperation between "North and South Vietnam." And no...it isn't a mis-statement. The whole speech is about how the two countries are working together.
  • On a visit to the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory in 2005, Rep. Lee made embarrassing news by asking if the Mars Pathfinder had taken an image of the flag planted there in 1969 by Neil Armstrong.
  • She has also urged better relations between the U.S. and Venezuela, which she describes as a friendly nation. She said the U.S. should reconsider its ban on selling F-16 fighter jets and spare parts to that country.
How can someone that stupid, and that racist, possibly be elected to a national office?

Of course, to oppose her would be...(join with me in saying)....racist.
 

Dragoon68

Active Member
So you're actually admitting ...

Nope, it's real simple: I'm just saying the NAACP, the "Pot", was planning to call the Tea Party, the "Kettle", black. The NAACP, a racist group if there ever was one, just about always takes the racist approach. Will they every muzzle their own attack dogs? It's amazing how many people out there still keep trying to make excuses for them.
 
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rbell

Active Member
NAACP Speech: Black official withheld help from white famer; bragged about it at convention.

SOURCE

Days after the NAACP clashed with Tea Party members over allegations of racism, a video has surfaced showing an Agriculture Department official regaling an NAACP audience with a story about how she withheld help to a white farmer facing bankruptcy -- video that now has forced the official to resign.

To their credit, the NAA-A-A-P condemned her actions...but you wouldn't know it by listening to their reactions to her speech.

Sherrod explained in the video that, at the time, she assumed the state or national Department of Agriculture had referred the white farmer to her. In order to ensure that the farmer could report back that she was indeed helpful, she said she took him to see "one of his own" -- a white lawyer.

"I figured that if I take him to one of them, that his own kind would take care of him," she said.

Disgusting. Also, check out her advice to the delegates:


In a second clip from the same event posted online, Sherrod appeared to urge black job seekers to find work at the Department of Agriculture because the federal government won't lay people off.

"There are jobs at USDA and many times there are no people of color to fill those jobs because we shy away from agriculture. We hear the word agriculture and think, why are we working in the fields?" she said. "You've heard of a lot of layoffs. Have you heard of anybody in the federal government losing their job? That's all I need to say."
 

Eric B

Active Member
Site Supporter
Enough for what? To prove that, out of millions of TP participants or sympathizers, that an idiot has been spotted?

It is laughable to compare the NAA-A-A-P's actions with the Tea Party's.

The former has statements from its leaders to its formally gathered members making false claims--claims that are racially motivated. The latter--at best--shows (possible) footage of an idiot with racist views. (Keep in mind, we don't know if it's even authentic. And also keep in mind, the "verbal attack" on the Congressman & his aides has not been corroborated--even though dozens of cameras were at the event).

So....systemic, public statements from leaders, versus possible stupid statements from a face in the crowd. Sorry...but in your attempt to be "even-handed," you're ignoring facts.

I will agree that both sides need to speak the truth.

But in no way can I go along with, "they're both equally to blame."

The NAA-A-A-P's behavior in recent days has been more egregious and more systemic than the Tea Party's. Leadership for the NAACP versus individual rank and file of the Tea Party.
I didn't say "both are equally to blame". I said a fault on either side... does not make one side all right, and the other all wrong". The point was, and what the picture was "enough" to show, is that there are racist elements in the organization, and thus a cause for likely concern, which people seemed to be denying altogether; as if it was all being entirely made up.
Nope, it's real simple: I'm just saying the NAACP, the "Pot", was planning to call the Tea Party, the "Kettle", black. The NAACP, a racist group if there ever was one, just about always takes the racist approach. Will they every muzzle their own attack dogs? It's amazing how many people out there still keep trying to make excuses for them.
Now this is the best example of what this whole discussion is about:

SOURCE
SOURCE2

Representative Sheila Jackson Lee, a Democratic race-baiter with a propensity to make profoundly stupid remarks, addressed the NAACP. Here's her words:

Quote:
All those who wore sheets a long time ago have now lifted them off and started wearing [applause], uh, clothing, uh, with a name, say, I am part of the tea party. Don’t you be fooled. [voices: "That's right.", applause] Those who used to wear sheets are now being able to walk down the aisle and speak as a patriot because you will not speak loudly about the lack of integrity of this movement. Don’t let anybody tell you that those who spit on us as we were walking to vote on a health care bill for all of America or those who said Congresswoman Jackson-Lee’s braids were too tight in her hair had anything to do with justice and equality and empowerment of the American people. Don’t let them fool you on that [applause]….

And what reaction does she get from this tripe?

Well...enthusiastic support. So much for "color blind."

The line about about folks spitting on members of congress prior to the health care vote? Absolute lie. $100,000 rewards are available for anyone who can prove these allegations are true: those rewards remain unclaimed.

So enough with the "tea party and NAACP are just alike, just on opposite political sides."

No, they're not. Not even close.
I didn't really say "they were exactly alike", either.
The difference is that one is established, and fighting for relevancy, which you all will gleefully point out. The other is newer and more reactive, with fresh passion, and the concern is, just as that quote suggests, that racists have gotten involved in it.

They did not all drop off of the face of the earth, or give up.
Of course, if the NAACP is the most racist organization now, then I guess the Klan and the Neo-Nazi's did just disappear. But of course they didn't. Many simply changed their tactics, and made more of an effort to blend in more with the general conservative movement.
To me, part of their modern tactic is to keep casting blame (directly or indirectly) on minorities for the nation's financial problems, by focusing on "taxes spent on social programs", and speech about "vast hordes of lazy grasshoppers" (sometimes cast as some class of "well-fed poor") to the exclusion of all other government waste, and other destinations of "wealth redistribution".

This touches upon many average taxpayer's concerns, and if they don't pay attention to the real issues, they might be none the wiser of the intentions, and then be shocked when someone points it out.

So the defense seems to be to totally cast the other side as totally off the wall, and one's own side as totally innocent, or then admit "a few kooks" when it can't be denied.
I think both sides need to refocus. I'm not saying anything about "equal" or "blame"; both sides of the issue have been led to blame each other, and I believe it is a distraction, as nothing ever gets better this way.

Just for fun, here are some other brilliant statements by Ms. Lee (Jackson-Lee? How do you refer to hyphenated women? Oh well, it doesn't matter...if I do it wrong, it's because I'm a racist anyway. She'll probably sue me for a civil rights violation):
  • Lee "educated" Congress on the current levels of cooperation between "North and South Vietnam." And no...it isn't a mis-statement. The whole speech is about how the two countries are working together.
  • On a visit to the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory in 2005, Rep. Lee made embarrassing news by asking if the Mars Pathfinder had taken an image of the flag planted there in 1969 by Neil Armstrong.
  • She has also urged better relations between the U.S. and Venezuela, which she describes as a friendly nation. She said the U.S. should reconsider its ban on selling F-16 fighter jets and spare parts to that country.
How can someone that stupid, and that racist, possibly be elected to a national office?

Of course, to oppose her would be...(join with me in saying)....racist.
Well, she sounds like the Palin of the Left.
And your side keeps mocking that way, but I don't actually see anyone saying that to oppose any of these people in instances like this would be racist. I do see the other side saying that any opposition to them is the "true" racism, or socialism, or anti-America, and a host of other pejoratives.
 

JohnDeereFan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Do you have any evidence that that is the case in those pictures?

Given the number of minorities involved in the Tea Parties, including those in leadership positions and those who are popular speakers, and given the principles the Tea Parties are based on, do you have any evidence that it isn't?

For one thing, if someone were to do that, wouldn't the people in the Church quickly confront him, so that to anyone taking a picture, it would be obvious that he was not apart of the Church?

A still photo captures a milisecond. Do you have any evidence that the people with those signs were not confronted but just not photographed?
 

Eric B

Active Member
Site Supporter
1) Remember, no one is saying the entire organization is racist. We're talking about individuals blending in.

2) There were no reports of the people in the photos being confronted. (The people not carrying such signs don't look like they're about to turn and oppose those next to them that are, or thaty they just haven't noticed yet). In some cases, it looks like that would entail breaking up the whole crowd, and if the TP had to confront or isolate a whole rally like that, we definitely would have heard about that.
 

targus

New Member
1) Remember, no one is saying the entire organization is racist. We're talking about individuals blending in.

2) There were no reports of the people in the photos being confronted. (The people not carrying such signs don't look like they're about to turn and oppose those next to them that are, or thaty they just haven't noticed yet). In some cases, it looks like that would entail breaking up the whole crowd, and if the TP had to confront or isolate a whole rally like that, we definitely would have heard about that.

Given that opponents of the Tea Party previously said that they would infiltrate Tea Party rallies carring offensive signs with the intent to discredit the Tea Party...

How is one now supposed to believe that is not what is happening here?
 

Dragoon68

Active Member
... Of course, if the NAACP is the most racist organization now, then I guess the Klan and the Neo-Nazi's did just disappear. But of course they didn't. Many simply changed their tactics, and made more of an effort to blend in more with the general conservative movement. ...

The KKK and the Nazi organizations are widely refuted for exactly what they were and they are largely extinct relics of times long past. The NAACP continues to spew out its race based hatred with open support and endless excuses given for its irresponsible conduct.

You should just acknowledge the fact that the NAACP was playing yet another race card to discredit the Tea Party because its movement against big government is a threat to the government based enslavement that the NAACP loves so much.

That would mean so much more than all the long winded responses trying to pick apart every minute detail of everything that everyone writes which doesn't wholeheartedly condone the NAACP.
 

rbell

Active Member
Eric, you left out one possibility:

That the number of racists has decreased. Maybe the reason there isn't the Klan influence nowadays is because there are fewer white racists.

My point is this: the NAACP is a recognized organization that is more and more embracing racist positions and ideologies.

IMO, no such "white" equivalent exists.

Are there white bigots/racists? You bet.

As many as 40 years ago? Nowhere near.
 

Eric B

Active Member
Site Supporter
Given that opponents of the Tea Party previously said that they would infiltrate Tea Party rallies carring offensive signs with the intent to discredit the Tea Party...

How is one now supposed to believe that is not what is happening here?
Who said that?

Eric, you left out one possibility:

That the number of racists has decreased. Maybe the reason there isn't the Klan influence nowadays is because there are fewer white racists.

My point is this: the NAACP is a recognized organization that is more and more embracing racist positions and ideologies.

IMO, no such "white" equivalent exists.

Are there white bigots/racists? You bet.

As many as 40 years ago? Nowhere near.

The KKK and the Nazi organizations are widely refuted for exactly what they were and they are largely extinct relics of times long past. The NAACP continues to spew out its race based hatred with open support and endless excuses given for its irresponsible conduct.

You should just acknowledge the fact that the NAACP was playing yet another race card to discredit the Tea Party because its movement against big government is a threat to the government based enslavement that the NAACP loves so much.

That would mean so much more than all the long winded responses trying to pick apart every minute detail of everything that everyone writes which doesn't wholeheartedly condone the NAACP.
I would think the people holding actual cards with racial references written on them were the ones "playing the race card".

There may be fewer of them, and the organizations were basically ostracized in society (largely by the same "political correctness" people complain about), but there are apparently enough of them still around to say that those who point them out are not totally making things up.And that's my only point.

"Longwinded"? It is your side that tries to build your arguments based on these comments of what the NAACP is trying to do, or what I'm making of them; so when I refute those things, then I'm "picking apart every minute detail"? Yeah; if I don't, then you will think your outlandish sweeping premise is automatically proven. Stop saying all this stuff, then.

I've admitted that the NAACP is struggling to maintain relevence, and often jumps on the wrong issues, and is politically motivated. I've never seen any of you EVER admit any flaws about the things you defend. No; it's all "poor us; we're so good and innocent and they're all out to get us".
But you're the one who has made it perfectly clear that it is you who demands wholehearted allegiance, or the other person is an "enemy", "one of those rotten bad guys", "longwinded", or this, or that, or the other.
So this constant projection of your own behavior has gotten very tiring.
 

Dragoon68

Active Member
... I've admitted that the NAACP is struggling to maintain relevence, and often jumps on the wrong issues, and is politically motivated. I've never seen any of you EVER admit any flaws about the things you defend. No; it's all "poor us; we're so good and innocent and they're all out to get us".
But you're the one who has made it perfectly clear that it is you who demands wholehearted allegiance, or the other person is an "enemy", "one of those rotten bad guys", "longwinded", or this, or that, or the other.
So this constant projection of your own behavior has gotten very tiring.

Some folks can grab a lot of random dots and connect them into an illogical path to nowhere often pointing to their own serious sensitivities!

So, anyway, the point was that the NAACP likes to play the race card - has for generations - and just tried it again with the Tea Party. I don't think it worked out too well for them. More and more people can see through it every day!
 
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