Silverhair
Well-Known Member
So after all is said and done it is still just your subjective view that it is real.
Scripture says you are wrong but it seems you would rather trust your feelings than the word of God.
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Praying for the dead... ???
- Thread starter Jesus is Lord
- Start date
So after all is said and done it is still just your subjective view that it is real.
Scripture says you are wrong but it seems you would rather trust your feelings than the word of God.
I can only warn people out of love. I have prayed for all the people on this site and their family and friends who are suffering and who have died.
I have a terrible inner grief when people reject something I know for certain and that will help them.
When you know the reality and people through circumstance and history are ignorant of it, the privilege of knowing becomes the curse of knowing.
I can’t explain properly what I know, I’m not trained, I’m a gardener, I can only hope and trust in Jesus to show you.
Just pray ‘ Lord Jesus, if Purgatory is real, please show me it’s real, somehow and some way.’
One day you will understand I am not your enemy and I have told you the truth from Scripture, the Fathers and my own experience.
Purgatory is real.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Yes I see that you really think it is true but scripture shows that you are wrong.
No, your understanding of Scripture is wrong. What the Fathers teach is the true interpretation of Scripture.
This is why heresy is so terrible, those that originally denied Purgatory have cost you the right understanding of Scripture for their erroneous human tradition generationally.
The highest culpability is on them. Whatever you and others suffer in purgatory as a result of their deception will be added to their sentences. It will take them till the end of time to make reparation, if ever.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Of course you are going to say that I do not understand scripture but Heb 9:27 is clear "it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,"
Your RCC has added purgatory so they can extract $ form the gullible to have a priest pray for their departed loved ones.
Christ paid for the whole worlds sins and those that trust in Him have those sins forgiven. Jn 2:2 "and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world." Are you going to say the Holy Spirit got it wrong?
Those that have not trusted in Christ will suffer the consequence of that choice and no amount of prayer for the dead will remove one sin.
You don’t understand the scripture, and you don’t accept it’s true interpretation.
In Luke 10:25 someone asked Jesus the question, “what can I do to inherit eternal life?” And the answer was given him. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul,mind & strength and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Nowhere do I hear any mention from Christ about praying to God for the release of souls from purgatory. but I get you, you are a Roman Catholic and you are the one true religion correct and every other Christian that’s not a RC is in apostate error and you will pray for all the lost souls… man,I get you… but I don’t see any confidence of God in your conviction. Apparently there is no grace & mercy in your RC convictions. After all, Christ did suffer & die to release sinners from Original Sin and save us from eternal damnation, so He paid for our sins… so would we attempt to usurp Gods authority to save souls from any obstruction to the Lords salvation plan? Can you explain?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
This from a person that needs a priest to tell him what scripture means. I have seen the abuse of scripture that the RCC has done and continues to do. You have fallen for the false teaching of that institution.
9 “I have seen these people,” the Lord said to Moses, “and they are a stiff-neckedpeople. 10 Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation.”
11 But Moses sought the favor of the Lord his God. “Lord,” he said, “why should your anger burn against your people, whom you brought out of Egypt with great power and a mighty hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians say, ‘It was with evil intent that he brought them out, to kill them in the mountains and to wipe them off the face of the earth’? Turn from your fierce anger; relent and do not bring disaster on your people. 13 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: ‘I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.’” 14 Then the Lord relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.”
Men work in with God’s salvation plan, we are part of it, not just the object of it.
Souls in purgatory can not make restitution for the damage they have done a part from fulfilling their time and ordeals.
We can mitigate their time and ordeals by our prayers, fasting and acts of love.
Jesus covered the forgiveness part for Salvation for them, but the restitution part has to be fulfilled.
Jesus covered the criminal penalty, but the civil case for restitution of damages must be paid.
Purgatory is a real debtors prison, we have to pay those debts of love we never or neglected to pay in life here.
I know from my spiritual experiences, everything is accounted, nothing we owe God or man is unaccounted for in the spiritual.
All the injustices we commit against others can be forgiven, but restitution has to be made for the damages.
It’s not ok in this life to just have your charges dropped, but not pay for the damages. Same in the spiritual.
Luther, Calvin and others in a long list human founded traditions and institutions told you what scripture means, and they were wrong, wrong from their inception.
Bible alone Protestantism is a continuing abuse of Scripture, each following his own subjective interpretations of scripture, conflicting with the others.
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We must make restitution or reparation here in this life as best we can, otherwise Purgatory is the hardest way.
Here it’s easy, but in purgatory it is hard.
“But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”
Why four times the amount?
Because as a tax collector he was dealing with people’s livelihoods which have broader and on going damage to people’s lives, families and down generations.
Non payment of wages cries out to heaven, God is very concerned about these kinds of injustices.
It would be the same for the tax collector cheating people regarding their livelihoods.
People who do these kinds of injustices pay to the last penny in Purgatory.
Trust me, nothing escapes Jesus notice as the Just Judge.
Jesus noticed the widows mite offered to the Temple treasury and declared it of greater value than all the rest given by all the wealthy.
Jesus knows the value of everything to the last penny, and circumstances regarding every single penny.
So first we must examine where we have cheated others and make restitution in what way we can, and not just regarding money. We owe debts of love first of all, debts of kindness, patience, humility and forbearance.
Then over and above that, make restitution and reparation for friends and family who have died and are in purgatory.
Then for those in purgatory that have no one to pray for them.
And finally pray for those who have cheated and owe you, that they not be held in purgatory on that account. Waive all claims against them before the Lord.
“Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold[h] was brought to him. 25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
26 “At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ 27 The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
28 “But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins.[i] He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.
29 “His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.’
30 “But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened.
32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”
Here it’s easy, but in purgatory it is hard.
“But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”
Why four times the amount?
Because as a tax collector he was dealing with people’s livelihoods which have broader and on going damage to people’s lives, families and down generations.
Non payment of wages cries out to heaven, God is very concerned about these kinds of injustices.
It would be the same for the tax collector cheating people regarding their livelihoods.
People who do these kinds of injustices pay to the last penny in Purgatory.
Trust me, nothing escapes Jesus notice as the Just Judge.
Jesus noticed the widows mite offered to the Temple treasury and declared it of greater value than all the rest given by all the wealthy.
Jesus knows the value of everything to the last penny, and circumstances regarding every single penny.
So first we must examine where we have cheated others and make restitution in what way we can, and not just regarding money. We owe debts of love first of all, debts of kindness, patience, humility and forbearance.
Then over and above that, make restitution and reparation for friends and family who have died and are in purgatory.
Then for those in purgatory that have no one to pray for them.
And finally pray for those who have cheated and owe you, that they not be held in purgatory on that account. Waive all claims against them before the Lord.
“Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold[h] was brought to him. 25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
26 “At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ 27 The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
28 “But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins.[i] He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.
29 “His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.’
30 “But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened.
32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”
32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”
You want to die with no claims against anyone, Purgatory is a torturous way pay back what’s owed, and they don’t get out until the smallest amount owed is paid back in full.
So by prayer to the King, in the servants case begging, we can reduce what’s owed on our part.
But the King also has the expectation that we waive what’s owed us by others.
People might say, it’s only temporary, let them pay in purgatory until it’s settled. No. They don’t understand, Purgatory is suffering far beyond anything on earth, you don’t want anyone be there until everything they owe is paid. Every moment is torturous, it’s the hardest way of restitution.
35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”
You want to die with no claims against anyone, Purgatory is a torturous way pay back what’s owed, and they don’t get out until the smallest amount owed is paid back in full.
So by prayer to the King, in the servants case begging, we can reduce what’s owed on our part.
But the King also has the expectation that we waive what’s owed us by others.
People might say, it’s only temporary, let them pay in purgatory until it’s settled. No. They don’t understand, Purgatory is suffering far beyond anything on earth, you don’t want anyone be there until everything they owe is paid. Every moment is torturous, it’s the hardest way of restitution.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
This from the person that needs a priest to tell him what to think re scripture.
GodisgraciousR325
Member
First of all, must learn dispnsational salvation.
Second, if we don't forgive, God won't forgive us and third, this was before age of grace.
This dosen't mean purgatory.
GodisgraciousR325
Member
They were persecuted, burned at the stake, they believed the Bible for the laymen to read and understand.
No. Jesus begins the parable.
“Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.”
So He is speaking of The Kingdom.
And ends the parable.
“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”
It means Purgatory because in Hell there is no paying off what’s owed, there’s no until, not even the possibility.
Purgatory is temporary, people stay there until they pay what’s owed.
Jesus frames this story as a King among his servants, the first servant and his fellow servant.
This is why we should waive all that others owed us before death.
Purgatory is real. I know it exists, it’s no joke.
People need to listen.
GodisgraciousR325
Member
Those who want to go to kingdom of heaven have to forgive others, don't deny Jesus and do rest.
My stance still stand
GodisgraciousR325
Member
I still don't understand where the pray for dead is in that verse.
Maybe its in the Acryophal?
The only punishment is hell or everlasting life.