Praying for the dead... ???

[GodisgraciousR325]

Sound's like Wescort and Hort. Also called themselves Anglicans.

 

[Tea]

The writings of the Early Church totally contradict this accusation.

What the Fathers teach is the true interpretation of Scripture.

As Catholics, you’re required to interpret not only Scripture but also ancient creeds, ancient councils, magisterial documents, and so on.

So if I may ask, as my Catholic friends on this board, whom I highly respect, how is it that you think you have a higher level of certainty than a person who is going directly to Scripture?

 

[Cathode]

As Catholics, you’re required to interpret not only Scripture but also ancient creeds, ancient councils, magisterial documents, and so on.

So if I may ask, as my Catholic friends on this board, whom I highly respect, how is it that you think you have a higher level of certainty than a person who is going directly to Scripture?

Catholics have never trusted their own personal understanding of Scripture. For us, it has always been forbidden to privately interpret Scripture.

Scripture has one singular objective and Apostolic interpretation handed down through the ages. This Singular Objective interpretation is called Truth and is guarded by The Holy Spirit.

Scripture is not a matter for each man's subjective opinion. Every heretic has quoted scripture to support his new heresy.

The Fathers constantly and forcefully warned people not to depart from Apostolic Tradition, which was the singular Apostolic interpretation of Scripture.
They were guardians of a deposit entrusted to them as even Paul says

"Timothy, guard what God has entrusted to you. Avoid godless, foolish discussions with those who oppose you with their so-called knowledge."

Human opinions of Scripture does not equal The Holy Spirit guided Apostolic Tradition of Scripture.

Where bible aloners went wrong is rejecting the singular Traditional Apostolic interpretation of The Holy Spirit, and then subjectively subjugating scripture to ever conflicting human opinions. It was a disrespect of Scripture at a fundamental level.

The prophecy of Scripture is not for private interpretation as scripture states.

All of scripture is prophetic, not just specific predictive prophecy but general narrative prophecy. From Creation, the fall, the redemption, the return of Christ and restoration of all things.

Luke 24:44

Scripture is not to be subjected to subjective human private interpretations.

All bible aloners go directly to scripture, why do they come away with different conflicting doctrines in the tens of thousands.

' I interpret this from scripture, therefore I am right '

It's not even intelligent in the first instance or logical in the second.

The " What does scripture mean to me " idea is a question from hard pride. A Catholic says " Who cares what scripture means to me, I only care what it means in objective Truth ".

Bible alone Protestantism is an active ongoing demonstration of man attempting to create his own truth, thousands of denominations reading and interpreting their own relative truths from scripture and all coming away in confliction with each other. They all love Jesus and are trying, but do not understand how The Holy Spirit works handing down the mind of Christ and His Apostles by Tradition.

The Truth is singular, infallible and eternal, not human, changeable and fallible.

"We are content with the fact that this is not the teaching of the Catholic Church, nor did the Fathers hold this.” Athanasius, Epistles 59 ( A.D. 356).

“But our faith is right, and starts from the teaching of the Apostles and tradition of the fathers, being confirmed both by the NT and the Old.” Athanasius, Epistles 60 (A.D. 356).

‘…For they dissent from each other, and , whereas they have revolted from their Fathers, are not of one and the same mind, but float about with various and discordant changes’ Athanasius, De Synodis 13 (A.D. 359).

‘For it is right and meet thus to feel, and to maintain a good conscience toward the fathers, if we be not spurious children, but have received the traditions from them, and the lessons of religion at their hands.’ Athanasius, De Synodis 47 (A.D. 359).

‘Such then, as we confess and believe, being the sense of the Fathers…’ Athanasius, De Synodis 48 (A.D. 359).

‘…but do you, remaining on the foundation of the Apostles, and holding fast the traditions of the Fathers, pray that now at length all strife and rivalry may cease and the futile questions of the heretics may be condemned…’ Athanasius, De Synodis 54 (A.D. 359).

‘It behooves us not to withdraw from the Creed which we have received…nor to back off from the faith which we have received from through the prophets … or to back-slide from the Gospels. Once laid down, it continues even to this day through the tradition of the Fathers.’ Hilary of Poitiers, Ex. Oper. Hist. Fragment 7,3 (c. A.D. 365).

 

[Cathode]

As Catholics, you’re required to interpret not only Scripture but also ancient creeds, ancient councils, magisterial documents, and so on.

So if I may ask, as my Catholic friends on this board, whom I highly respect, how is it that you think you have a higher level of certainty than a person who is going directly to Scripture?

"speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction."

What are they ignorant of ? Why was the text alone insufficient ?

They are ignorant of Apostolic Tradition, that is the Apostles interpretation of Paul letters, text alone ended in their destruction.

Protestantism makes its greatest errors precisely from Paul's writings, that Peter warns about.

There is no guarantee of perfect interpretation of scripture by textual criticism mentioned in Scripture.

What there is is Oral tradition guarded by The Holy Spirit.

"But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

The Apostles hearing Christ's teaching orally preached by The Spirit, would recall by The Spirit, and their preaching by The Spirit would be received and preached by The Spirit, Father to Father down the Ages. This is Apostolic Tradition.

Rejecting Apostolic interpretation of Scripture lead to countless human interpretations of Scripture, in cascades of error.

"So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter."

Bible alone heresy rejected the word of mouth tradition of the Apostles and the substitution was their own opinions, and interpretations of scripture.

They were liberated from the tyranny of truth and the Apostles understanding of Scripture so they thought, and scattered into wilderness of relativism, and thousands of conflicting subjective human interpretations and doctrines.

Traditions of men. Every protestant bible alone church has a human founder.

 

[Salty]

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[Walter]

"speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction."

What are they ignorant of ? Why was the text alone insufficient ?

They are ignorant of Apostolic Tradition, that is the Apostles interpretation of Paul letters, text alone ended in their destruction.

Protestantism makes its greatest errors precisely from Paul's writings, that Peter warns about.

There is no guarantee of perfect interpretation of scripture by textual criticism mentioned in Scripture.

What there is is Oral tradition guarded by The Holy Spirit.

"But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

The Apostles hearing Christ's teaching orally preached by The Spirit, would recall by The Spirit, and their preaching by The Spirit would be received and preached by The Spirit, Father to Father down the Ages. This is Apostolic Tradition.

Rejecting Apostolic interpretation of Scripture lead to countless human interpretations of Scripture, in cascades of error.

"So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter."

Bible alone heresy rejected the word of mouth tradition of the Apostles and the substitution was their own opinions, and interpretations of scripture.

They were liberated from the tyranny of truth and the Apostles understanding of Scripture so they thought, and scattered into wilderness of relativism, and thousands of conflicting subjective human interpretations and doctrines.

Traditions of men. Every protestant bible alone church has a human founder.

Countless interpretations of scripture leading to countless evangelical denominations.

 

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