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Pre-Mil Fallacy

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timtofly

Well-Known Member
Not true. Both of them were told by God not to eat the fruit:

Gen. 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Eve used plural pronouns ("we," "ye") to speak of her knowledge of what God said. She knew that God had said that neither of them were to eat of it.

The NT says explicitly that Eve transgressed, and she ate the fruit before Adam did:

1 Tim. 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
What part or parts of God's Word did Eve add? Adam had to tell her not to touch it, since touching would lead to eating. Was Eve deceived or out right in disobedience? It cannot be both. Are you assuming that when Eve died, Adam ate to join her in death? If you claim they both did not die physically, you are not biblical either. They went from incorruptible flesh to corruptible flesh. That is physical death. They lost their spirit that wrapped them in physical light.

Sin was not in the world until after Adam ate. It did not enter, because Adam thought he should eat, and join Eve in death.

The whole point is that in the Millennium, sin will not be present.
 

Scripture More Accurately

Well-Known Member
What part or parts of God's Word did Eve add? Adam had to tell her not to touch it, since touching would lead to eating. Was Eve deceived or out right in disobedience? It cannot be both. Are you assuming that when Eve died, Adam ate to join her in death? If you claim they both did not die physically, you are not biblical either. They went from incorruptible flesh to corruptible flesh. That is physical death. They lost their spirit that wrapped them in physical light.

Sin was not in the world until after Adam ate. It did not enter, because Adam thought he should eat, and join Eve in death.

The whole point is that in the Millennium, sin will not be present.
I cannot make sense of your garbled notions. Do you or do you not believe what the Bible says in 1 Tim. 2:14 when the text explicitly says that "the woman being deceived was in the transgression"?

The Bible does not teach that sin will not be present in the Millennium. I do not know where you get that notion, but it is not taught in Scripture.
 

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Paul said sin entered by one man, Adam. Paul did not claim Eve introduced sin into the world. It is not biblical to presume facts that are not in the Scriptures.

Sin was present even without A Law, particularly the Law of Moses. Sin cannot be present before God allowed it. At what point is the law written in the hearts of human kind?
Paul also said that Eve sinned first.
 

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You are Phariseeizing the text. God blinded them so they could not understand the scriptures. Yet you practice their folly and don't even know what Jesus says about the Kingdom.

Why would God need to blind someone who was already blind and unable to understand scripture due to being lost already?
 

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
And condemned as heresy by the Council of Ephesus in 431 in two ways.


“In addition to its condemnation of Nestorianism, the council also condemned

Pelagianism, [2] and rejected premillennialism (Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Papias,

Tertullian, Origen, Lactantius) in favor of Amillennialism (Clement of

Alexandria, Chrysostom, Jerome and Augustine of Hippo): "Augustine's

explanation became Church doctrine when it was adopted as the definitive

explanation of the millennium by the Council of Ephesus in 431."[35]


Secondly, “Canon 7 condemned any departure from the creed established by the First Council of Nicaea (325)” This affirmed Jesus “shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.” Thereby denouncing premillennialism and the doctrines leading up to and including Dispensationalism of the 1800s.
Where is this commentary from?
 

percho

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Again, Old Jerusalem is done. We have come to the Heavenly Jerusalem. Galatians 4 , Hebrews 12 . It appears you're not judging by faith, but by sight.

Not sure. There is a time at the end of the thousand years that he will be loosed. I think if we live to see those days, we could see some scary stuff. Halloween scary. 'The Exorcist' scary. Sorcerers turning sticks to snakes scary. Missionaries saying the devils are no longer subject to us scary.

Is, Jerusalem above, Is the heavenly Jerusalem, of which we have come to, the church ?

Are we, by haven been indwelt with the Holy Spirit put in the church, put in Jerusalem above, which is the mother of us all?
Are we, by haven been given the first-fruit of the Spirit put in the church, put in Jerusalem above which is the mother of us all?

Is the church, Mount Zion?

From Isa 66:8 shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as ( ?Mount? ) Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

Is that the church travailing. to bring forth a nation? Is that nation the kingdom of God? 1000 years and then the new heavens and new earth, ruled from New Jerusalem.



Romans 1:4 who is marked out Son of God in power, according to the Spirit of sanctification, by the rising again from the dead,) Jesus Christ our Lord;
Luke 20:35,36 but those accounted worthy to obtain that age, and the rising again that is out of the dead, neither marry, nor are they given in marriage; for neither are they able to die any more -- for they are like messengers -- and they are sons of God, being sons of the rising again.

Do those verses associate the sonship of Jesus and our sonship to God with the resurrection out of the dead?

Resurrection out of the dead is being brought forth, a birth according to the word of God.

Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? Isa 66:7,8

That was the resurrection, out of the dead, of Jesus.
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
First, According to the Nicene Creed

………………. and He shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; Whose kingdom shall have no end.


Sproul, R. C. (Ed.). (2015). The Reformation Study Bible: English Standard Version (2015 Edition) (p. 2389). Orlando, FL: Reformation Trust.

And condemned as heresy by the Council of Ephesus in 431 in two ways.


“In addition to its condemnation of Nestorianism, the council also condemned

Pelagianism, [2] and rejected premillennialism (Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Papias,

Tertullian, Origen, Lactantius) in favor of Amillennialism (Clement of

Alexandria, Chrysostom, Jerome and Augustine of Hippo): "Augustine's

explanation became Church doctrine when it was adopted as the definitive

explanation of the millennium by the Council of Ephesus in 431."[35]


Secondly, “Canon 7 condemned any departure from the creed established by the First Council of Nicaea (325)” This affirmed Jesus “shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.” Thereby denouncing premillennialism and the doctrines leading up to and including Dispensationalism of the 1800s.

325. wow, DaveG.
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
What part or parts of God's Word did Eve add? Adam had to tell her not to touch it, since touching would lead to eating. Was Eve deceived or out right in disobedience? It cannot be both. Are you assuming that when Eve died, Adam ate to join her in death? If you claim they both did not die physically, you are not biblical either. They went from incorruptible flesh to corruptible flesh. That is physical death. They lost their spirit that wrapped them in physical light.

Sin was not in the world until after Adam ate. It did not enter, because Adam thought he should eat, and join Eve in death.

The whole point is that in the Millennium, sin will not be present.

Which is "The Garden of Eden"?

Now, or then.

Or, neither.

I think people need to leave The Garden of Eden alone and leave it where it was.
 
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Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
Six hour warning
This thread will be closed no sooner than 11 pm EDT / 8 pm PDT
 

timtofly

Well-Known Member
Again, we've already entered the New Jerusalem. Hebrews 12:18, 22 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, ... But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels.
The church yes, but not the physical Jerusalem of the 1000 year iron rule over the physical nations. Earth is never left desolate or empty. Humans do still live here.
 

timtofly

Well-Known Member
No.

Seven Visions are Seven Visions.

Seven Spirits is in context with Seven churches.

The same message is sent to the Seven Churches
and the Self-Same Spirit is The Seven Spirits.

Seven are to be viewed as one.

The Interpretation is demanded by the text and would have prevented you from flying off into the air, thinking you knew an alarm clock was available to be set sometime(?), by somebody ( The End Times Bible novices) for something(?) later to happen after the alarm clock rings(?).

Tell me 'The Seven Sections'. What are 'The Seven Sections' we're talking about?

THE SEVEN PARALLEL SECTIONS OF THE BOOK OF REVELATION.
In each case, the parallel sections consider the time period from the First to the Second Comings of Christ; only the perspective differs. (Revelation 1:1 clearly confirms this First Coming-Second Coming time scale of all that appears within the book).

The parallels are somewhat spiritually progressive, with the seventh and final section even venturing into The New Heavens and the New Earth.

A quick and easy way to see the seven parallels is the fact that the Second Coming of our Lord appears to occur seven times in this book, something thousands have wondered about.

This is because there are seven parallel sections, covering events from John's day to the parousia.


SECTION ONE.
Christ in the Midst of the Lamps (Rev. 1:1-3:22):
THE AGE OF THE CHURCH.

The lampstands represent the 7 churches; these are typical of all churches throughout this church age. As in all of these sections, the narrative brings us to Christ's return (3:20-22).

SECTION TWO.
The Vision of Heaven and the Seals (Rev.4:1-7:17):
THE CHURCH WILL BE TRIUMPHANT.

This is a picture of the entire Church triumphant and includes the first mention of the 144,000. Once again, the section closes in chapter seven with the return of Christ, but since the theme here is the Church triumphant, the focus is almost entirely on the saved.

SECTION THREE.
The Seven Trumpets (Rev. 8:1-11:19):
THE WORLD WILL BE PUNISHED FOR ITS REJECTION OF GOD.

This section describes the affects of the Seven Trumpets on both those who reject God and upon the saved. Dark and fearful things affect the world in chapters eight and nine, whilst chapters ten and eleven focus on the Church. Once again (as in all of the other sections), the narrative brings us to Christ's return at the seventh trumpet (11:15). The message is clear: terrible things will come upon a God-rejecting world but God's own people will rejoice!

SECTION FOUR.
The Persecuting Dragon (Rev. 12:1-14:20):
THE CHURCH MUST EXPECT PERSECUTION.

The woman and the Man-child are persecuted by the dragon and his helpers. The section starts with a clear reference to the birth of our Saviour (12:5), the dragon threatens to devour the Man-child (Christ), but He is caught up to heaven, so the dragon now persecutes the 'woman' (the Church) through the agencies of the 'beast' and the 'harlot.' This is why Christians must expect persecution. Yet again the section closes with the Second Coming and with impending judgment (14:14-20).

SECTION FIVE.
The Seven Bowls (Rev. 15:1-16:21):
FINAL JUDGMENT.

These seven sections progressively reveal a little more and now the entire focus is on the final judgment of this world, and Armageddon is mentioned (16:16). Indications are strong (as we will learn later in this article) that the seven bowls and seven trumpets refer to exactly the same events but from somewhat differing perspectives; Christ returns at the seventh bowl and seventh trumpet.

SECTION SIX. The Fall of Babylon (Rev. 17:1-19:21):
BABYLON'S CONFUSION FINALLY REMOVED FROM THE WORLD.

The current Babylonian system is why people are currently blinded to spiritual truth and worship money, commerce and various satanic ideologies: Darwinism, Marxism, Pantheism (modern 'environmentalism' is clearly pantheistic), and all the false religions. Babylon said (and currently still says) that people can freely be wealthy and prosperous at the expense of others and that these people can have a religion of their choice to appease their souls; Babylon masked the truth about God and gave people a religion of their minds; Babylon truly offered a self-earned justification, bedecked in deceptive luxury, moreover, it may even be observed in modern evangelicalism. This section shows when Babylon will finally be destroyed for her evil works of deception. We again find the return of Christ occurring (19:11), these regular returns of Christ confirm that these are parallel sections, not consecutive occurrences!

SECTION SEVEN.
The Great Consummation (Rev. 20:1-22:21):
GOD'S KINGDOM SPREADS FROM HEAVEN TO THE EARTH
AND TO THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE!

The final section which reveals such great spiritual truth begins by going back to the start of the Church age to show how Satan has been restricted during this age. We even see the saints in heaven awaiting the resurrection (20:4-5), then we learn more about a final great military battle and the final destruction of the beast, false prophet and Satan himself (20:7-11), next we are presented with an amazing glimpse of the Great White Throne of Judgment when everybody who has ever lived must stand before God! (20:11-15). Yet it does not even finish there: God has even allowed us a symbolic glimpse into the New Jerusalem and the New Heavens and New Earth (chapters 21-22).


"FURTHER CONFIRMATIONS THAT THE ABOVE ARE INDEED PARALLEL SECTIONS:

1. The similarities between Revelation 12 and 20 are very striking and the feeling is strong that the approximate same time period is being covered but from differing perspectives, with a focus on differing events during the period; the former focusing on the persecution which believers must expect, the latter focusing on how God's eternal kingdom will never be thwarted but will finally be established upon the earth (as it currently is in heaven).

2. According to the third period, the period which is being described is one of forty-two months (11:2), or twelve hundred and sixty days (11:3), but we also find this same time period in the fourth parallel section (chapters 12-14), where it is 'twelve hundred and sixty days' (12:6), or, 'a time, and times and half a time' (12:14) - of course, as all serious Bible students will know, these are periods of exactly the same length. This very strongly suggests that the period of the trumpets being blown (section three), is parallel with section four, in which Christ battles the dragon. So up to this point we have strong indications of parallels between Section Three (the Seven Trumpets), Section Four (Christ battles the dragon), and the final Section Seven (the Great consummation).

3. But there is still more: Section Three (the seven trumpets) shows very strong indications of being parallel with Section Five (the bowls of wrath). How so? Because the first trumpet (8:7) affects the earth, so does the first bowl (16:2), the second trumpet affects the sea, so does the second bowl, the third trumpet refers to the rivers, so does the third bowl, the fourth trumpet refers to the sun, so does the fourth bowl, in both cases the fifth refers to the pit of the abyss, the sixth to the Euphrates and the seventh to the Second Coming! Therefore indications are indeed strong - if not pretty much overwhelming - that the seven trumpets and seven bowls refer to exactly the same events but with different emphases and viewpoints. This again obviously tends to substantiate that these are indeed seven parallel sections.

4. The final defeat of the dragon, the beast out of the sea, the beast out of the earth, and the great harlot are effectively described in two different sections (six and seven), therefore those sections must surely be parallel.

5. The bowls of wrath section (5), ends with a great battle, 'the battle of the great day of God Almighty (16:14), the next section (6), also ends with a great battle (19:19), finally, in Section Seven, one may read, 'to gather them together to battle' (20:8), therefore it would seem reasonable to conclude that those sections are indeed at least roughly parallel and certainly sometimes actually describe the same events.
All man made illustrations of a private interpretation.
 
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