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PRE-TRIB? MID-TRIB?

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timtofly

timtofly

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
Pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib... it's all dispensationalism. Amillenialism doesn't break up God's work into differing functions. God remains consistent from beginning to end.
Now, it really doesn't bother me regarding a person's view on future events. I find it a waste of my day to be looking at the future and guessing.
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Well it moves Revelation 20 and places it as a dispensation. Not sure how not saying a dispensation can exist removes one from dispensational error. Athiest refuse to say God does not exist. They just believe they do not know. No one gets to use "A" as in "does not exist". It is just a symbolic notion.
 
timtofly

timtofly

Well-Known Member
church mouse guy said:
Now how can I be raptured pre-trib or mid-trib when I don't believe a word of dispensational eschatology? I will wave good-bye to you guys, OK?
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Since when does God operate solely on your personal beliefs? You can wave goodby. The "who to" is not up to your beliefs though.

This is not based on your position in Christ. This observation is only on your choice of who you wave to.
 
B

Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
No rapture, no pre-trib. Just tribulation and then the King returns.

Daniel 7:25-28

He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. But the court shall sit in judgment, and his dominion shall be taken away, to be consumed and destroyed to the end. And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High; his kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.’ “Here is the end of the matter. As for me, Daniel, my thoughts greatly alarmed me, and my color changed, but I kept the matter in my heart.”

2 Peter 3:1-13
This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you,not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed. Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Rightly divide the Bible, Barry. Know that it is only in the last 150 years that anyone dreamed up the rapture (pre-trib).
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Well Until the forth century ( Augustine) most of what you believe never existed . But who's depending on History and tradition right ..All you have done is quote scripture. If I quote it back the same way ,will you understand what I'm saying ?
 
timtofly

timtofly

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
No rapture, no pre-trib. Just tribulation and then the King returns.

Daniel 7:25-28

He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. But the court shall sit in judgment, and his dominion shall be taken away, to be consumed and destroyed to the end. And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High; his kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.’ “Here is the end of the matter. As for me, Daniel, my thoughts greatly alarmed me, and my color changed, but I kept the matter in my heart.”

2 Peter 3:1-13
This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you,not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed. Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Rightly divide the Bible, Barry. Know that it is only in the last 150 years that anyone dreamed up the rapture (pre-trib).
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This is the 6th seal event. It is definitely not the battle of Armageddon. Part of this event is removing Satan from access to the throne. This access is still ongoing even after God on the throne and the Lamb are in clear view of all on earth. The 7th Trumpet is the trigger of Michael removing Satan from being the Adversary and accuser. It is at this time the 42 months is being set up. The battle of Armageddon is at the end of the 42 months.
 
B

Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
church mouse guy said:
Look, you have been very nice about this so I took time to find a definition for your consideration.

Dispensationalism is a theological system that teaches biblical history is best understood in light of a number of successive administrations of God's dealings with mankind, which it calls "dispensations." It maintains fundamental distinctions between God's plans for national Israel and for the New Testament Church, and emphasizes prophecy of the end-times and a pre-tribulation rapture of the church prior to Christ's Second Coming. Its beginnings are usually associated with the Plymouth Brethren movement in the UK and the teachings of John Nelson Darby.

https://www.theopedia.com/dispensationalism
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Or we should recognise some things are different at different times in the bible.
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Barry Johnson said:
Well Until the forth century ( Augustine) most of what you believe never existed . But who's depending on History and tradition right ..All you have done is quote scripture. If I quote it back the same way ,will you understand what I'm saying ?
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It seems you are saying neither the book of Daniel nor 2 Peter existed until Augustine.
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
timtofly said:
This is the 6th seal event. It is definitely not the battle of Armageddon. Part of this event is removing Satan from access to the throne. This access is still ongoing even after God on the throne and the Lamb are in clear view of all on earth. The 7th Trumpet is the trigger of Michael removing Satan from being the Adversary and accuser. It is at this time the 42 months is being set up. The battle of Armageddon is at the end of the 42 months.
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You realize that Rev 4:1 -22:4 is figurative, poetic language, don't you? Attempting to timeline the vision is an effort in futility.
 
church mouse guy

church mouse guy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Barry Johnson said:
// They are all emphatic that good Christians have a ticket to escape the Tribulation, to get out of jail free.///
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Right. In the old board game of Monopoly, you could draw a card to get out of jail free if you ever landed on the square to go directly to jail. Dispensationalism teaches that Christians will be raptured before the Tribulation. This doctrine dates to the early 19th century in England.
 
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