PRE-TRIB? MID-TRIB?

[AustinC]

Brother, please, God is in control of history, nothing, but nothing, random happens.

That said, here goes what says the Word of God for your meditation: Isaiah 40:v.13-23

13 Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him?

14 With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of Judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding?

15 Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing.

16 And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering.

17 All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.

18 To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?

21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?

22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

23 That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity.


The TRUMPET shall sound.

Well...your talking to a person who trusts wholely in the Sovereign authority of God. So, thank you for sharing scripture that emphasizes the Supremacy of God. Just a couple weeks back, I read through Isaiah and was blessed by the great hope it conveys to us.
No worries. Peace

 

[Oseas3]

Yes, but post-tribulation doctrine does not agree that there is a rapture before the tribulation. You may call it undeniable, but others call it unscriptural.

If you have time, please read Canadian Smith.

You are right. There will not be any "rapture" before the great battle of Arnageddon, and the great tribulation. Revelation 16:v.13-16 among others, and Matt.24.

Revelation 16:v.13-16
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the Dragon, and out of the mouth of the Beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of this great Day of God Almighty. -> that is, the Lord's Day <-

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Armageddon is a contraction of three words: -> Air(heaven-Ephesians 1:v.3) + Magog + Eddon (it means red) - and is the red Dragon, a monstruous religious system with 7 heads, and 10 horns, and a TAIL. The Antichrist's Empire.

 

[George Antonios]

The twilight zone over here.

 

[Oseas3]

It's still dispensationalism. The ages are just adjusted so the rapture comes at the end of the tribulation and then Jesus returns.
It's not your version, but it is solidly dispensationalism.

Daniel 12:v.11-12
11 From the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. (Scripture is not refering about sacrifices of demons made by demons through red heifers, or goats, or pigs, whatever it is, but about the holy sacrifices of JESUS valid until the end of the Dispensation of Grace in these last two millenniums)

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Day 1335 after the END of the Great tribulation. This is the Day of JESUS coming, or the return of JESUS. Hallelujaaa!

What prevails is the Word of God. Who knows TODAY what day will it be? which is the prophetic day 1335 , revealed by the Word of God ?

 

[Oseas3]

This is Matthew 24:21,22 are referring to the days of tribulation, during the Abomination of Desolation.

" except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be SAVED: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened". Mat.24:v.22. The verse 21 says: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Terrible, very terrible.

There is no 'mill', or 'trib' in the other verses. Revelation 13:v.13-14 depict the last Days and Judgment when Jesus Returns and everything is over, except The Consummation, as well as 2 Thess. 2, and Revelation 7:1-4.

Any second they could happen, in finality, just as they are happening, now, in principle.

Revelation 13 does not come after Revelation 7. They depict the same event(s).

What JESUS said about the END of the world, and about His coming, as is written in Mat.24 among others Scriptures, one by one of the signs will happen henceforth, day by day, inclusive will arise a false Christ (v.23), in fact a FALSE MESSIAH of the Jews as said JESUS(John 5:v.43, AN IMPOSTER), and our LORD warned His people, saying: If any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

JESUS warned: For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets (false preachers of Scriptures) , and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (Terrible, very terrible, say I).

25 Behold, I have told you before. -> So, the most important is to obey what our LORD said about the signs to be happen in this present time, even in the days ahead.

Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Dan.12:v.12.
It means 75 days after the END of the second period of half week of the last week, and the END of this world of Devil, and the END of the Dispensation of Grace, and END of the FIRST and SECOND heavens, the END of all things, and the BEGINNING of God's Kingdom, the millenial Kingdom of the LORD, as He said in Luke 20:v.35-36.

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. Revelation 1:v.5-6

THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND

 

[Oseas3]

I have no idea how that connects to what I said. By the way, those colours are hard to read especially for people on mobile devices. Use sparingly. They are hard on the eyes.

What does the Word of God say?

In JESUS is life; and the life is the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehend Him not.

 

[AustinC]

Daniel 12:v.11-12
11 From the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. (Scripture is not refering about sacrifices of demons made by demons through red heifers, or goats, or pigs, whatever it is, but about the holy sacrifices of JESUS valid until the end of the Dispensation of Grace in these last two millenniums)

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Day 1335 after the END of the Great tribulation. This is the Day of JESUS coming, or the return of JESUS. Hallelujaaa!

What prevails is the Word of God. Who knows TODAY what day will it be? which is the prophetic day 1335 , revealed by the Word of God ?

Millions of our brother's and sister's have been martyred and butchered. Tell them they didn't face great tribulation. It is an eisegesis nightmare to take the verses you shared and turn them into some future event that happens after the children of God have been removed from the earth.

 

[Oseas3]

Good effort n posting this one, thank you!

You are welcome.

To the only wise God our Saviour, be Glory and Majesty, Dominion and Power, both now and ever. Amen.

The TRUMPET shall sound

 

[Oseas3]

Millions of our brother's and sister's have been martyred and butchered. Tell them they didn't face great tribulation. It is an eisegesis nightmare to take the verses you shared and turn them into some future event that happens after the children of God have been removed from the earth.

You are saying that, not me. What you said has nothing to do with the content that was posted. Anyway, what does the Word of God say?

If any man build upon the foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work will be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it will be revealed by FIRE; and the FIRE shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by FIRE. 1Cor.3:v.12-15.

So, you should be worried with yourself.

The TRUMPET shall sound, if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

 

[Oseas3]

The twilight zone over here.

JESUS said: I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. Revelation 22:v. 16

 

[Oseas3]

Well...your talking to a person who trusts wholely in the Sovereign authority of God. So, thank you for sharing scripture that emphasizes the Supremacy of God. Just a couple weeks back, I read through Isaiah and was blessed by the great hope it conveys to us.
No worries. Peace

Amen. To the only wise God our Saviour, be Glory and Majesty, Dominion and Power, both now and ever. Amen.

 

[church mouse guy]

In many ways,

Revelation is the most practical book
of the entire New Testament
since it is specifically written to Christians

who live in the post-apostolic age.

...
This means that the symbols and visions we find here

are meant for us.

Therefore, we must make every effort to interpret them correctly

and apply them to our present context.

9.1.1a “THE TIME IS NEAR” Pt. 1 in Section 1 of REVELATION Chapter 1:1 – 3:22 / “JESUS CHRIST in the MIDST of the LAMP-STANDS.”

Sir, would you care to join me in waving good-bye to the Dispensationalists since clearly their rapture will be for dispensationalism believers only?

 

[church mouse guy]

It's still dispensationalism. The ages are just adjusted so the rapture comes at the end of the tribulation and then Jesus returns.
It's not your version, but it is solidly dispensationalism.

Sir, who is your authority on this? It deals with the end of the world but pre-trib & mid-trib date from roughly 1800 in England. It opposes historic post-trib thinking that says that the Blessed Hope arrives then. The leading site of dispensationalism as far as I know is Dallas Theological Seminary.

 

[AustinC]

You are saying that, not me. What you said has nothing to do with the content that was posted. Anyway, what does the Word of God say?

If any man build upon the foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work will be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it will be revealed by FIRE; and the FIRE shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by FIRE. 1Cor.3:v.12-15.

So, you should be worried with yourself.

The TRUMPET shall sound, if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

I read that passage in 1 Corinthians and I am reminded that our works may burn up, but we won't. Therefore, worrying is not from God.
Now, please exegete that passage as proof of a pre-trib rapture.

 

[AustinC]

Sir, who is your authority on this? It deals with the end of the world but pre-trib & mid-trib date from roughly 1800 in England. It opposes historic post-trib thinking that says that the Blessed Hope arrives then. The leading site of dispensationalism as far as I know is Dallas Theological Seminary.

Pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib... it's all dispensationalism. Amillenialism doesn't break up God's work into differing functions. God remains consistent from beginning to end.
Now, it really doesn't bother me regarding a person's view on future events. I find it a waste of my day to be looking at the future and guessing.

 

[church mouse guy]

Pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib... it's all dispensationalism. Amillenialism doesn't break up God's work into differing functions. God remains consistent from beginning to end.
Now, it really doesn't bother me regarding a person's view on future events. I find it a waste of my day to be looking at the future and guessing.

Look, you have been very nice about this so I took time to find a definition for your consideration.

Dispensationalism is a theological system that teaches biblical history is best understood in light of a number of successive administrations of God's dealings with mankind, which it calls "dispensations." It maintains fundamental distinctions between God's plans for national Israel and for the New Testament Church, and emphasizes prophecy of the end-times and a pre-tribulation rapture of the church prior to Christ's Second Coming. Its beginnings are usually associated with the Plymouth Brethren movement in the UK and the teachings of John Nelson Darby.

https://www.theopedia.com/dispensationalism

 

[AustinC]

Sir, who is your authority on this? It deals with the end of the world but pre-trib & mid-trib date from roughly 1800 in England. It opposes historic post-trib thinking that says that the Blessed Hope arrives then. The leading site of dispensationalism as far as I know is Dallas Theological Seminary.

cmg, I lived in the world of dispensationalism and went to a dispensational Bible School. All three rapture options were taught, with the prevailing view being pre-trib.
However, the argument for the rapture, in my opinion, is weak. I also find that spending much time on future speculation is a waste of the present where I am called to tell others about reconciliation with Christ rather than dream of what may be.
Let today care for itself and let us not worry about tomorrow.

 

[church mouse guy]

cmg, I lived in the world of dispensationalism and went to a dispensational Bible School. All three rapture options were taught, with the prevailing view being pre-trib.
However, the argument for the rapture, in my opinion, is weak. I also find that spending much time on future speculation is a waste of the present where I am called to tell others about reconciliation with Christ rather than dream of what may be.
Let today care for itself and let us not worry about tomorrow.

I think that you were taught wrong. Most dispensationalists consider post-trib heretical and called it covenant theology. Dispensationalism says I am not going to see the Anti-Christ, etc.

 

[AustinC]

I think that you were taught wrong. Most dispensationalists consider post-trib heretical and called it covenant theology. Dispensationalism says I am not going to see the Anti-Christ, etc.

Many from that school went on to Dallas Theological Seminary.
Regardless, post-trib is found in the dispensational camp, not covenant theology.

 

[church mouse guy]

Many from that school went on to Dallas Theological Seminary.
Regardless, post-trib is found in the dispensational camp, not covenant theology.

No, I never met a dispensationalist who believed in the post-trib rapture. They are all emphatic that good Christians have a ticket to escape the Tribulation, to get out of jail free.