Pre-trib questions

[olegig]

I believe that we are in the so-called millennium at the present time.

If that is so, then how does one explain all the passages that speak of the lion laying with the lamb, and the child playing with the snake?

When studying the Book of Revelation a person must be aware that it is written for the most part in symbolic language.

How does one discern between the symbolic and actual?
How does one discern what is physical and what is symbolically spiritual?
Do you believe the virgin birth was physical, spiritual, or symbolic?

Scripture teaches that mortal man can not live in the presence of the Glory of GOD. No one who espouses an earthly reign has yet explained how mortal man can live in the presence of Jesus Christ whom Scripture states shall return in the full Glory of GOD.

I would be glad to attempt an explaination for you; but first you must offer the scriptural references upon which you base the above.

OldRegular if the dear readers are to learn anything from your remarks, surely you should aid the reader with scriptural basis; for how else can the readers compare your theologies with scriptures?

Darrell C.

Answer a question for me please. Is the Millennial Kingdom the Kingdom of GOD since GOD, Jesus christ, will be reigning?

A strange question from someone who does not believe in a future Millennial Kingdom.
I would suppose you would have worded it: "Is this Millennial Kingdom............" But I will attempt an answer in the vein of the question.

The Bible speaks of the future Millennial Reign as the Kingdom of Heaven (Heaven on earth).
And yes, as you state Jesus Christ will be reigning.
This Kingdom of Heaven is contained within the Kingdom of God as is everything.

 

[Marcia]

i am trying to delete my post. but it's not working, sorry.

Joy, you can't delete posts. But if you change your mind about posting something, just delete it and then type in something like, "I changed my mind" or "Deleted post."

Btw, welcome to the BB!

 

[OldRegular]

Jesus is God manifested in the flesh, yes. But the Millennial Kingdom is his to rule from David's throne. Upon its completion Jesus will have the angels remove all that offends from the kingdom (those born during the Millennium that choose not to follow and be obedient to God, after satan is released from his prison), and Jesus will present the Kingdom to and turn it over to The Father.

Answer me this: Revelation 19:11ff describes the return of Jesus Christ in the full Glory of the Godhead. Scripture teaches that man cannot look upon the Glory of GOD and live.[Exodus 33:20; 1 Timothy 6:16] So how are mortals to live in the presence of GOD during the so-called millennial reign?

Matthew 13:36-43
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

The above Scripture is a parallel description of the events that take place at the time of the general resurrection and judgment [John 5:28, 29 and Revelation 20:11-15]

Many view this as a discription of the great tribulaiton period, and that there is no Rapture prior to the seven years. But "The time of Jacob's Trouble", or "Daniel's 70th week" can not be equated to "The Kingdom". There will be no Kingdom of God or Christ on the earth during the Great Tribuation. The thousand year reign of Christ will occur after the Gorious Appearing of The Lord, which takes place at the end of the Great Tribulation Period.

Though I believe that it is likely that the tribulation endured by the Christians will increase near the return of Jesus Christ the Great Tribulation period is a dispensational invention.

 

[RevJWWhiteJr]

Answer me this: Revelation 19:11ff describes the return of Jesus Christ in the full Glory of the Godhead. Scripture teaches that man cannot look upon the Glory of GOD and live.[Exodus 33:20; 1 Timothy 6:16] So how are mortals to live in the presence of GOD during the so-called millennial reign?

You are siting scripture, and then telling me what you believe it to mean. Not quoting the scripture passage so that all can see whether you are correct in your assumption.

The phrase, "full Glory of the Godhead" does not appear in that passage. And those that believe as you do overlook a very critical phrase in that passage.

Revelation 19:11
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

John saw what he was describing and lived. This passage does not describe the same event that Moses experienced. It was the face of God that was the subject of Exodus 33:20.

1 Timothy 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

When Jesus hands over the kingdom to the Father, "he shall shew" or point all to "the only immortal" that dwells in the light, which no man can approach to. Most believers do not know exactly what is being refered to here, but it is not Jesus in his resurrected glorified form as more than 500 witnessed after his resurection, or John discribed in chapter one of Revelation (and still lived).

Then the passage,,
Matthew 13:36-43
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

The above Scripture is a parallel description of the events that take place at the time of the general resurrection and judgment [John 5:28, 29 and Revelation 20:11-15]

There is no general resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

Though I believe that it is likely that the tribulation endured by the Christians will increase near the return of Jesus Christ the Great Tribulation period is a dispensational invention.

The Great Tribulation is the "70th week of Daniel", "The time of Jacob's Trouble". If you believe it to be an invention, I am not going to change your mind with scripture.

But the millennium (that is obviously future, since all that is described has never taken place in our past or is presently true) can be found,,,

Isaiah 11:4-9
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. 6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice’ den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

 

[olegig]

Answer me this: Revelation 19:11ff describes the return of Jesus Christ in the full Glory of the Godhead. Scripture teaches that man cannot look upon the Glory of GOD and live.[Exodus 33:20; 1 Timothy 6:16] So how are mortals to live in the presence of GOD during the so-called millennial reign?

Revelation 19 (King James Version)
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

OldRegular, it appears you are confusing the wrath of God (vs 15) with the Glory of God; but that is understandable.

When a man has been taught and told that he is something special in the eyes of God, then soon that man begins to feel like he is something special.
Then that same man starts to look to the reprobate as something not so special and begins to see their destruction as something glorious.

But the man has a problem in this regard that God does not, for the man does not know who is reprobate and who is truly chosen.

So the man creates conditions upon which he then judges who is chosen and who is reprobate and these conditions are that since "I" am chosen; then the reprobate are those who do not believe and act as I do because if they were chosen, they would indeed believe and act as I do.

We see this even today in Macarthur's lordship salvation where one is expected to do certain things in certain ways to prove one's salvation.

Now we have come full circle with yet another of man's theologies and ended at the same place,,,,,works.

And this my friend is the cancer of Calvinism.

 

[OldRegular]

You are siting scripture, and then telling me what you believe it to mean. Not quoting the scripture passage so that all can see whether you are correct in your assumption.

The phrase, "full Glory of the Godhead" does not appear in that passage. And those that believe as you do overlook a very critical phrase in that passage.

Revelation 19:11
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Since you want to quote Scripture why not go all the way?

Revelation 19:11-16
11. And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

I realize that the term Full Glory of The Godhead does not appear in the above passage but if you cannot see the GLORY of GOD in this description of HIS return then:tear::tear::tear::tear:

But to help you out I will quote another passage:


Matthew 24:29-31
29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

John saw what he was describing and lived. This passage does not describe the same event that Moses experienced. It was the face of God that was the subject of Exodus 33:20.

John is reporting what he saw in a vision. Dispensationalists fail to understand that much if not most of the Book of Revelation is written in symbolic language. John could not literally see something that had not yet happened! Your problem is that you think everything in the Bible must be translated literally, except passages like John 5:29, 30 which should be understood literally. But they show that dispensational doctrine is fallacious so you apply a symbolic interpretation to that passage.

First, GOD does not have a face, or a backside. Therefore the passage from Exodus describing GOD’s revelation to Moses:

Exodus 33:18-23
18. And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
19. And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
20. And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
21. And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
22. And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
23. And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen..

must be translated as a metaphor. You realize, of course, that GOD is Spirit. [John 4:24]. That GOD tells Moses HE will only reveal HIS back parts indicates HE will only reveal a limited portion of HIS GLORY to Moses!

1 Timothy 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

When Jesus hands over the kingdom to the Father, "he shall shew" or point all to "the only immortal" that dwells in the light, which no man can approach to. Most believers do not know exactly what is being refered to here, but it is not Jesus in his resurrected glorified form as more than 500 witnessed after his resurection, or John discribed in chapter one of Revelation (and still lived).

The passage from Revelation 19 pictures the return of Jesus Christ, of whom it is said: And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. The passage from ! Timothy uses this same title KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. for the Father. Yet you deny that the passage from Revelation 19 shows that Jesus Christ returns in the full Glory of the Godhead. But then that would not accomodate dispensational doctrine.

As for the 500 who saw Jesus Christ after HIS resurrection HE was not clothed in the full GLORY of the Godhead so your rationale is specious.

Then the passage,,
Matthew 13:36-43
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

There is no general resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

If there is no general resurrection then you are denying Scripture or claiming that Scripture is in conflict since John 5:29, 30 clearly teaches a general resurrection and judgment. You really do have to “rightly divide the Word” but you can neither ignore Scripture, deny Scripture, or splinter Scripture.

The Great Tribulation is the "70th week of Daniel", "The time of Jacob's Trouble". If you believe it to be an invention, I am not going to change your mind with scripture.

But the millennium (that is obviously future, since all that is described has never taken place in our past or is presently true) can be found,,,

Isaiah 11:4-9
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. 6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice’ den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

That the Great Tribulation is the "70th week of Daniel" is another dispensational myth.

 

[OldRegular]

olegig routinely slanders me on this Forum. Some months ago I spent a lot of time debating with ituttut, a hyper dispensationalist, his erroneous belief that there was more than one Gospel. I eventually gave it up as a lost cause and he left the Forum. Whether or not he has returned I do not know.

I do know that believing and teaching that there is more than one Gospel is heretical. olegig insists that the gospel given to the Apostle Paul is different than the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This is heretical and I refuse to waste anymore of my time discussing this heresy. The Apostle Paul says let such a one be accursed.[Galatians 1:8, 9]

Scripture states in Psalms 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. I have decided that debating one who holds a heretical doctrine is as useless as debating an atheist.

 

[olegig]

I do know that believing and teaching that there is more than one Gospel is heretical..

Now there you go again OldRegular, misrepresenting my position.
Why do you do this?

I do believe there was more than one gospel, in fact the Bible is full of different "good news" accounts given to different individuals at different times.
However I have never claimed there is more than one Gospel in effect today as you would like to insinuate.

If this is a heresy then it should be a fairly easy thing for even a beginning Bible student to prove.

By the way, I would still like to hear your testimony of salvation and what you might tell an individual today that is asking about the salvation offer of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I would also enjoy your response in the "Whosoever" thread; but I will not go there here. I will bump it up for your refreshment.

And I am also interested in your Replacement Theological response to:


Jeremiah 31 (King James Version)
35Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

36If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

37Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

These theologies like the Catholic church and Calvinism born of Augustine interest me in how they have taken over the world.

 

[Darrell C]

Darrell C.

Answer a question for me please. Is the Millennial Kingdom the Kingdom of GOD since GOD, Jesus christ, will be reigning?

Hi Old Regular,

I was beginning to think you would ignore me (thats okay, though).

Thank you for the question. I would have preferred some answers to my questions, though. As I told you, I am interested in understanding why one would choose amillennialism when it seem to contradict so many passages.

However, for your question.

I have seen in my short time as a Christian (15 years only) the tendency for some to cling to "special revelation" in order to set themselves apart (and above) other Christians.

Not that I am applying this to you, sir, I am merely stating why I endeavor to understand "strange" doctrines.

I see no distinction between "the kingdom of heaven" and "the kingdom of God" as some do.

I agree with you in this: there is one gospel, and it is eternal.

I will answer your question with this:

I see the Kingdom of God as the rule of God over that and they that belong to Him. It has many aspects in its unfolding which will culminate in the eternal state in which God will be all in all.

The millennial kingdom will be the kingdom of God, and Christ will rule (I know there is debate whether He will occupy a physical throne on earth or not). This, however, will not be the eternal state in which man will exist.

John saw "a new heaven and a new earth". Why would you doubt the God of eternity could show John that time. Is God bound by time?

I believe God showed John the very things as they happened.

As far as how mortal man can come into the presence of God and live, I see no contradiction that needs new doctrine to help it out.

God has dealt with man face to face (on the plains of Mamre), and at the same time, no man hath seen God at any time.

I believe that when God deals directly with man, He has always done so in the Person of the Son.

He will do so again in the M.K.

God bless.

 

[OldRegular]

I see no distinction between "the kingdom of heaven" and "the kingdom of God" as some do.

I agree with you in this: there is one gospel, and it is eternal.

I will answer your question with this:

I see the Kingdom of God as the rule of God over that and they that belong to Him. It has many aspects in its unfolding which will culminate in the eternal state in which God will be all in all.

The millennial kingdom will be the kingdom of God, and Christ will rule (I know there is debate whether He will occupy a physical throne on earth or not). This, however, will not be the eternal state in which man will exist

Then how do you explain the following Scripture since the teaching regarding the millennial kingdom is that it will be inhabited by mortals as well as resurrected Saints? Yet the Apostle Paul states that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 15:50-57
50. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56. The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Darrell C]

Then how do you explain the following Scripture since the teaching regarding the millennial kingdom is that it will be inhabited by mortals as well as resurrected Saints? Yet the Apostle Paul states that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 15:50-57
50. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56. The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Because the mystery is that we are changed from corruptible to incorruptible, from physical, like unto Him...glorified.

I see no problem with glorified saints existing in the millennial kingdom. Those who are still physical will not at this time entered the true Holy of Holies, but will be here on earth.

The glorified saints (and this is just what I believe) will have access to both.

God bless

 

[Darrell C]

Hi Old Regular,

I know somewhat what you believe, but I ask you, why is what Paul states about resurrection in 1 Cor. 15 a mystery?

The Israelites believed as you do (except for the Sadducees), that there was a general resurrection of the dead.

 

[OldRegular]

Because the mystery is that we are changed from corruptible to incorruptible, from physical, like unto Him...glorified.

I see no problem with glorified saints existing in the millennial kingdom. Those who are still physical will not at this time entered the true Holy of Holies, but will be here on earth.

The glorified saints (and this is just what I believe) will have access to both.

God bless

Where do you get the Holy of Holies in the millennial Kingdom.

Also earlier you stated the millennial kingdom was the kingdom of GOD but you ignore what the Apostle states in Verse 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. So tell me how those who are still physical will exist in the Kingdom of God!

 

[OldRegular]

Hi Old Regular,

I know somewhat what you believe, but I ask you, why is what Paul states about resurrection in 1 Cor. 15 a mystery?

The Israelites believed as you do (except for the Sadducees), that there was a general resurrection of the dead.

He is referring to the fact that there will still be living Saints on earth when Jesus Christ returns. At that time the following will occur:

52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[olegig]

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Kind of blows the amillennial position out of the water.
Everyone would agree that everyone is "flesh and blood" now; so therefore this cannot be the kingdom.

Thanks for the proof text.

 

[Darrell C]

Where do you get the Holy of Holies in the millennial Kingdom.

Also earlier you stated the millennial kingdom was the kingdom of GOD but you ignore what the Apostle states in Verse 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. So tell me how those who are still physical will exist in the Kingdom of God!

Hi Old Regular,

You must have missed that I said the true Holy of Holies.

This is Heaven, where the true presence of God resides.

Those in the millennial kingdom will have a temple, and will keep the feasts, and will offer sacrifice during this time (c.f. Zech. 14).

There will be no salvation value to this ceremony, as there is no salvation value to communion (it is done in memorium).

There will be those who are born at this time who will not be changed as Paul describes in 1 Cor. 15.

There will be those who reject Christ and refuse to worship as commanded by God.

Does that help?

God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Where do you get the Holy of Holies in the millennial Kingdom.

Also earlier you stated the millennial kingdom was the kingdom of GOD but you ignore what the Apostle states in Verse 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. So tell me how those who are still physical will exist in the Kingdom of God!

Again, the progression of fulfillment for those in the millennial kingdom is as of yet not complete.

It is for those found in v. 50, because they are taken to the true Holy of Holies, Heaven itself.

We will reign with Christ during the 1000 years, and I believe we will traverse from one to the other, having a ministry to the physical saints on earth similar to the present-day ministry of angels.

Those entering the millennial kingdom will be those saved in the tribulation, and they shall have children.

But we (rapture believers) believe that at this time the Old Testament saints (dead in Christ) and the Christians (we which remain) will be glorified, saved from the wrath of the Day of the Lord (tribulation), and will ever be with the Lord.

God bless.

 

[OldRegular]

Again, the progression of fulfillment for those in the millennial kingdom is as of yet not complete.

It is for those found in v. 50, because they are taken to the true Holy of Holies, Heaven itself.

We will reign with Christ during the 1000 years, and I believe we will traverse from one to the other, having a ministry to the physical saints on earth similar to the present-day ministry of angels.

Those entering the millennial kingdom will be those saved in the tribulation, and they shall have children.

But we (rapture believers) believe that at this time the Old Testament saints (dead in Christ) and the Christians (we which remain) will be glorified, saved from the wrath of the Day of the Lord (tribulation), and will ever be with the Lord.

God bless.

So, after your confusing but loyal dispensational interpretation, where is Jesus Christ during this period of time?

 

[AnotherBaptist]

So, after your confusing but loyal dispensational interpretation,...

Come on, it's not that confusing to you as you always seem able to identify it as being dispensational. :laugh:

 

[OldRegular]

Come on, it's not that confusing to you as you always seem able to identify it as being dispensational. :laugh:

That is the way I identify it as dispensational!:tongue3: