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Pre-Trib Rapture; Scriptural or Dispensational Fiction

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A

Amy.G

New Member
2Th 2:3 (KJV1611 Editiin):
Let no man deceiue you by any meanes, for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sinne bee reuealed, the sonne of perdition,
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Ed, how can you understand end time events if you can't define words properly?

"Falling away" does not mean rapture. Please show me a definition from a valid source that states the "falling away" means people being lifted off the earth.

The word here is "apostasia", meaning forsake. It is referring to a forsaking of the faith.

Strong's: G646 apostasia ä-po-stä-sē'-ä to forsake, falling away


Compare:
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Strongs: G868 aphistēmi ä-fē'-stā-mē depart, draw away, fall away, refrain, withdraw self, depart from
 
A

Allan

Active Member
Amy.G said:
Ed, how can you understand end time events if you can't define words properly?

"Falling away" does not mean rapture. Please show me a definition from a valid source that states the "falling away" means people being lifted off the earth.

The word here is "apostasia", meaning forsake. It is referring to a forsaking of the faith.

Strong's: G646 apostasia ä-po-stä-sē'-ä to forsake, falling away


Compare:
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Strongs: G868 aphistēmi ä-fē'-stā-mē depart, draw away, fall away, refrain, withdraw self, depart from
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I agree Amy. Ed's 'apparent' definition of falling away is not correct. The context is that due to this falling away the son of perdition will be revealed or made known to all. WHY? Because of the great falling away from truth to the embracing or error and sin. He can not be revealed or better he would not be received by the majority until the majority of world is ready to recieve his words and embrace his new doctrines which is to replace truth with error
 
A

Amy.G

New Member
Allan said:
I agree Amy. Ed's 'apparent' definition of falling away is not correct. The context is that due to this falling away the son of perdition will be revealed or made known to all. WHY? Because of the great falling away from truth to the embracing or error and sin. He can not be revealed or better he would not be received by the majority until the majority of world is ready to recieve his words and embrace his new doctrines which is to replace truth with error
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:thumbs:

(must add more words......Happy New Year!)
 
T

Todd W. White

Member
Site Supporter
Well, if I can't find his answers to them, or ones like them, I will, but I would rather defer to him, as his credentials as a serious scholar and authority on the Word of God are far and above what mine will ever be...
 
Marcia

Marcia

Active Member
Grasshopper said:
Well, since you have done an indepth study of Daniel(Beth Moore perhaps?), you can explain to all of us why we should assume a gap in Daniel's 70 weeks.
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It was not Beth Moore, it was Kay Arthur.

I'd have to dig out my book and look at it again - I'm not that good at remembering the intricacies. The book, if I still have it, is still packed away in a box from my move last May.

The level of hostility against disp. and superiortiy toward those who believe in dispensationalism here is amazing. I do not accept the amil view but I'm not hostile to it.
 
O

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Grasshopper
Well, since you have done an indepth study of Daniel(Beth Moore perhaps?), you can explain to all of us why we should assume a gap in Daniel's 70 weeks.
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You did not ask me but I believe I can provide a partisl answer. They need a gap to prop up their erroneous doctrine. Ask many dispensationalists a question and their initial response is : What about Daniel's 70th week. So: What about it.

This is off topic but no one seems to be able to address the OP!:BangHead: :BangHead:
 
Marcia

Marcia

Active Member
OldRegular said:
This is off topic but no one seems to be able to address the OP!:BangHead: :BangHead:
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I think Todd White did a good job and he used scripture.

There is not just a single verse or two to support this view, as someone else said. It's a matter of putting various scriptures together.

This is an interesting article on Daniel's 70th week:
http://www.truthnet.org/endtimes/4/

I really do not want to spend much time on this thread because I think it's futile.
 
Grasshopper

Grasshopper

Active Member
Site Supporter
Marcia said:
I think Todd White did a good job and he used scripture.

There is not just a single verse or two to support this view, as someone else said. It's a matter of putting various scriptures together.

This is an interesting article on Daniel's 70th week:
http://www.truthnet.org/endtimes/4/

I really do not want to spend much time on this thread because I think it's futile.
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From the article:

The 69th week closes with Messiah the prince being cutoff, but the 70 weeks are not yet complete. The killing of the Messiah, stopped the prophetic clock, before it was completed. There is one week or seven-year period remaining. This seven-year period begins with the confirming of a covenant with many regarding a future Jewish Temple.

I am aware that this is what dispies teach, but on what basis do they insist that the "clock stopped"? The idea certainly doesn't come from Daniel. Did God not know at this time His Son would come to be crucified? Again, other than eschatological bias, why should we put a gap inbetween the 69th and 70th week?
 
E

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
Scriptural Promise: Pre-Trib Rapture

Uptopic 3 part series: // 4. What is the hope and the comfort to the Christian as the Bible speaks to its soul? What are we to look for and to wait for and to yearn for and to hope for? What are we to look forward to? Is it the coming of the END, or the coming of THE LORD? //


Grasshopper: // I look forward to my teen age daughters growing up and marrying and having their own children. Looking forward to growing old with my wife and ultimately spending eternity in Heaven with my Saviour. Hopefully eternity includes sitting down with all of you and having Jesus set us all straight on this stuff ...
Joh 17:15 I do not pray for You to take them out of the world, but for You to keep them from the evil. //

My teen age daughter is approaching 40. So I've been blessed with seeing her grow up, marying a guy who I like to talk to, having grandchildren (now boys 4 and 2). Her Mother died when the Mother was 55 in 1999. But God granted me a companion for my old age so that I have not 2 but 9 grandchildren - 2 of whom are living with me now. So that didn't all come down for me like you hope it will pan out for you (I do pray it might come down for you like you planned it, if the Lord tarries). What do we do when things don't happen like we planned, hoped, even faithed? We roll with the punches knowing by faith:

Rom 8:24-28 (KJV1611 Edition, e-sword.com edition):
For wee are saued by hope: but hope that is seene, is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if wee hope for that wee see not, then doe wee with patience waite for it.
26 Likewise the spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what wee should pray for as wee ought: but the spirit it selfe maketh intercession for vs with groanings, which cannot bee vttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts, knoweth what is the minde of the spirit, because he maketh intercession for the Saints, according to the will of God.
28 And wee know that all things worke together for good, to them that loue God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Romans 8:26c (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition, e-sword edition)
... the Spirit it selfe maketh request for vs with sighs, which cannot be expressed.

But all things do NOT work out like we hope, but yet we faith: God will take care of us from His eternal POV (point of view).

Yes, brother Grass*, I hope we get to visit over this matter in the here-after.

* Grasshopper's VOD (verse of the day):

1 Peter 1:22C (KJV1611 Edition, e-sword edition):
...
see that ye loue one another with a pure heart feruently,
23 Being borne againe, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God which liueth and abideth for euer.
24 For all flesh is as grasse, and all the glory of man as the flowre of grasse: the grasse withereth, and the flowre thereof falleth away.
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for euer: & this is the word which by the Gospel is preached vnto you.
 
T

Todd W. White

Member
Site Supporter
Marcia said,

I think Todd White did a good job and he used scripture.
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I wish it HAD been me, but, alas, I was quoting my baptist pastor of many years, who was a renowned Bible scholar and an acknowledged expert on biblical exegesis.

OR said,

He has not responded to my answer and I used Scripture!
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We've addressed that, OR - I said that I would attempt to find the original author's answers to these or similar questions, and post them. If they cannot be found, I would do my modest best to do so instead.
 
Grasshopper

Grasshopper

Active Member
Site Supporter
Todd W. White said:
We've addressed that, OR - I said that I would attempt to find the original author's answers to these or similar questions, and post them. If they cannot be found, I would do my modest best to do so instead.
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Actually Todd it was me who wanted the questions answered not OR. Easy to get confused with several conversations going on at once.
 
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