Pre-Tribulational Rapture

[preachinjesus]

Maybe you've over looked the part of being ready. We convince our selves that He could come at any moment so that we would be ready. In other words living with the expectation of being raptured at any moment causes us to live a more Godly life. How else would you suggest to stay ready as the story of the virgins, 5 were and 5 were not. Those who were not ready were left behind.

The parable's point has more to do with salvation.

Now are you suggesting that if a pre-tribulational rapture happens that only pre-tribulational dispensationalists will be taken, leaving the rest of Christendom to fend for themsleves?

Or are you implying a split-rapture concept?

Either of those views are highly incompatible with Scripture imho. I am sympathetic to the traditional pre-trib/pre-mil view (probably because my eschatological view is historical pre-mill.) Suggesting either of these alternatives is simply out of bounds with the testimony of Scripture.

We are to be mindful of the chance of the second coming, but not consumed with it. I see more teaching about living a Christ-centered life amongst people than huddling up and getting neck cramps from staring at the sky waiting for Jesus.

 

[preachinjesus]

I believe that many people accept the so-called rapture because they believe they will escape death!

I can definitely agree with that. Also I think there is a bit of entitlement mentality...our generation is so bad that we deserve to be raptured. Just a thought.

While we should be mindful of the times, we should not be consumed with it. Let's be honest, the eschatological framework given by Tim LaHaye sells lots of books but is not compatible with THE Book.

Now he wants to do it all over again. I wish we could move beyond this limited view of eschatology and put our efforts into redeeming our times now.

 

[OldRegular]

While we should be mindful of the times, we should not be consumed with it. Let's be honest, the eschatological framework given by Tim LaHaye sells lots of books but is not compatible with THE Book.

I applaud anyone who is able to write a thoughtful commentary on the Book of Revelation whether I agree with it or not. However, i believe that for a Christian to write a series of fictional books as did LeHaye and Jenkins to exploit peoples ignorance and curiosity just to make money is a disgrace

 

[kyredneck]

A critical review written by a secular Jew, of the book ‘The American Prophecies’, by Michael D. Evans. Interesting read.

http://www.nypress.com/article-10296-save-a-jew-save-yourself_.html October 19,2004

 

[Revmitchell]

I applaud anyone who is able to write a thoughtful commentary on the Book of Revelation whether I agree with it or not. However, i believe that for a Christian to write a series of fictional books as did LeHaye and Jenkins to exploit peoples ignorance and curiosity just to make money is a disgrace

Yes, you got it, their motivation was to exploit the ignorance of others. You nailed it. How were you able to discern their hearts intentions here? that is miraculous!

 

[OldRegular]

Yes, you got it, their motivation was to exploit the ignorance of others. You nailed it. How were you able to discern their hearts intentions here? that is miraculous!

I:saint:t is a gift!:thumbs:

 

[kyredneck]

A critical review written by a secular Jew, of the book ‘The American Prophecies’, by Michael D. Evans. Interesting read.

http://www.nypress.com/article-10296-save-a-jew-save-yourself_.html October 19,2004

Excerpt from his essay, 'The Second Coming', by Israel Shamir

“The rise of the Antichrist as the last stage before the Second Coming may be compared with the betrayal and the Crucifixion before the Resurrection. Thus actively aiding and abetting the Antichrist, in order to speed up the Second Coming, is tantamount to playing the role of Judas betraying Christ - if he betrayed Christ in order to quicken the Redemption.......Such an approach is called "antinomian", and Christ foresaw it when he said: "the Son of Man will go as it has been decreed, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed" (Mat 26:24).......So-called Christian Zionists are antinomians as they side with the Antichrist in order to quicken the Second Coming, but woe to that man who helps Antichrist to destroy the world. Whether they believe in the Second Coming of Christ or not, people who knowingly implement antichristian plans are better called "the Antichrist Zionists". Rise of the Antichrist Zionists is a part of the prophesied Apostasy of the Church. But our feeling towards them are like that towards misled brothers. They were ensnared by their spiritual longing for Christ. We do not mind that they are fundamentalists - we regret that they are not sufficiently fundamentalist.....”

 

[OldRegular]

One huge mistake either the reviewer or the author made is assuming that all evangelicals believe in the fictional rapture, or God's Dust Buster as the reviewer called it.

A second mistake by one of the two is that if the fictional rapture is nonfictional then only evangelicals Christians would be caught up in God's Dust Buster as the reviewer called it. If the fictional rapture is nonfictional then it is my understanding that all those who are saved will be caught up.

Now I am making a gross assumption here. I am assuming that, even though I don't believe in the fictional rapture, if it turns out to be nonfictional I won't be Left Behind, as Tim LaHaye would say.:tear::tear:

I hope one of you rapture buffs will ease my mind here!raying:raying:

 

[kyredneck]

Bear in mind, the review was written from a secular Jew's perspective.

 

[OldRegular]

Bear in mind, the review was written from a secular Jew's perspective.

Doesn't that really describe the vast majority of Jews. My understanding, correct me if I am wrong, is that most Jews are agnostic at best!

 

[kyredneck]

Doesn't that really describe the vast majority of Jews. My understanding, correct me if I am wrong, is that most Jews are agnostic at best!

Yes, agnostic describes the majority of Jews (from what I've read in the past), and the majority of them are unquestionably left wing in their politics. That's why these crusty old liberals who were influencing and directing policy in the Bush administration were referred to as 'neo-cons'.

I just looked at my 2nd to last post (#47) and realized that the way I constructed it, it could appear that Israel Shamir is the 'secular' Jew who wrote the article referenced above his excerpt, which is not the case at all. Israel Shamir is a true blue believing Jew with a circumcised heart (Greek Orthodox and a bit to the left in politics (his parents were Russian Jews)) and an Israeli citizen.

 

[Tom Butler]

I usually stay out of these discussions, but occasionally I'll jump in.

I was reading Revelation 13, where John is describing the beast, the Anti-Christ.

In V.7, it says "And it was given unto him to make war on the saints and overcome them...'

If the believers are gone from the earth at this point, who are these saints?

 

[Tom Bryant]

I usually stay out of these discussions, but occasionally I'll jump in.

I was reading Revelation 13, where John is describing the beast, the Anti-Christ.

In V.7, it says "And it was given unto him to make war on the saints and overcome them...'

If the believers are gone from the earth at this point, who are these saints?

The answer from a pre-trib position is that many people get saved during the Tribulation period.

 

[Tom Butler]

The answer from a pre-trib position is that many people get saved during the Tribulation period.

Tom, I'm not pre-trib, but that would explain why there are saints for the AntiChrist to make war on.

Back 40 years ago, when I was first exposed to the pre-trib view, I was taught that no Gentiles would be saved during the tribulation, since the Holy Spirit was also gone. The only ones who would be saved were Jews, and even then not in the way Gentiles had been saved before the rapture.

So is there more than one view among dispensationalists about this? And with the Holy Spirit gone, would Gentiles get saved the same way as Jews? And if so, how will they be saved?

Obviously, even in the dispy camp, there is not unanimity of opinion.

 

[Johnv]

Am I the only person who has no particular interest in whether a rapture will be pretrib/posttrip/mremil/postmil/amil?

After way too many years in bible college, I became committed to preaching the first coming, and let the second coming be concerned with itself.

 

[webdog]

I usually stay out of these discussions, but occasionally I'll jump in.

I was reading Revelation 13, where John is describing the beast, the Anti-Christ.

In V.7, it says "And it was given unto him to make war on the saints and overcome them...'

If the believers are gone from the earth at this point, who are these saints?

We know they are the Jews. What we don't know is if there will be Gentile's who come to faith during the Great Tribulation. I tend to think there will be, hence the Angel proclaiming the Gospel to every nation (Rev. 14:6)

 

[webdog]

Am I the only person who has no particular interest in whether a rapture will be pretrib/posttrip/mremil/postmil/amil?

After way too many years in bible college, I became committed to preaching the first coming, and let the second coming worry about itself.

Quite Possibly We are told to look for His coming, and I'm sure looking!

 

[Tom Bryant]

I'm not really a dispy, at least a one that would please Schofield...

I had heard that the only people saved were Jews, but don't think that is very widely held about pre-trib people. I think all people are saved the same way in the tribulation as they are saved in the present time.

We're always saved by faith. For me, I think the Bible teaches that the content of that faith may change. "Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness". He obviously had no knowledge of the substitutionary death of Jesus, but he believed what God had said and God counted reckoned it as righteousness.

So now gentiles and jews are saved by faith in Jesus and what He did on the cross and his resurrection and the same will apply in the trib.

others view will vary. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[AnotherBaptist]

I'm not really a dispy, at least a one that would please Schofield...

Apparently you missed the memo from N.A.D. (National Association of Dispies) headquarters. You don't get to label yourself as a dispy. Others get to do that... :laugh:

(and they'll let you know what "kind" of dispy you are, believe me)

 

[Jerome]

I became committed to preaching the first coming, and let the second coming be concerned with itself.

"One thing is needful, sir, and that is by no means a puzzling matter; it is plainly this, that thou submit thyself to Jesus Christ and sit at his feet. That is needful: as for the doctrines of election and the second advent, they are important, but they are neither the most essential nor the most pressing. The one thing needful for a seeking soul is that it receive Jesus and become submissive to him, setting as a disciple at his feet and as a servant doing his will. It is true there is the ninth chapter of Romans in the Bible, and a precious chapter it is: but the seeking sinner should take care to read first the third chapter of John, and till he has mastered that, he had better let the Romans alone. Go first to the business which concerns your salvation; attend to that, and when all is right with you, then, at Jesus' feet, you will be in the best possible position to learn all that can be learned of the higher mysteries and the deeper truths." ---Charles Spurgeon, "The One Thing Needful"