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Pre-Tribulational Rapture

O

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
Tom Bryant said:
We're always saved by faith. For me, I think the Bible teaches that the content of that faith may change. "Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness". He obviously had no knowledge of the substitutionary death of Jesus, but he believed what God had said and God counted reckoned it as righteousness.
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Then what does the Apostle Paul mean when he says?

Galatians 3:8. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
 
Tom Bryant

Tom Bryant

Well-Known Member
AnotherBaptist said:
Apparently you missed the memo from N.A.D. (National Association of Dispies) headquarters. You don't get to label yourself as a dispy. Others get to do that... :laugh:

(and they'll let you know what "kind" of dispy you are, believe me)
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I know. Everyone must have a label! How can we stereotype you, if you don't have a label.
 
J

Jim1999

<img src =/Jim1999.jpg>
Messianic sacrifice existed from the beginning of sinful humanity. Abraham looked forward to the ultimate sacrifice as we look back to the cross.

Hence, without the shedding of blood there is no remission.

The Bible IS the history of salvation, revealed through Israel. First the people, then the Israel of God, the church.

Cheers,

Jim
 
Tom Bryant

Tom Bryant

Well-Known Member
Never mind, I don't want to debate about this. You won't change me and I won't change you. We both believe the Bible teaches us what we believe. I understand your view and don't agree with it. You understand my view and don't agree with it.
 
R

Robert Snow

New Member
OldRegular said:
I believe that many people accept the so-called rapture because they believe they will escape death!
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I'm sure that is one reason. But for me, it is the eschatology I was taught since becoming a Christian. In fact, it was many years before I even understood that all Christians don't believe in the rapture.

It is only after realizing that the rapture doesn't fit the Bible and coming to realize that the rapture theory is a relatively new doctrine, that I have been able to finally see the truth. I do, however, still understand that I could be wrong and the rapture could be correct, but in looking at the Bible, as of now, I just don't see it.
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
Robert Snow said:
I'm sure that is one reason. But for me, it is the eschatology I was taught since becoming a Christian. In fact, it was many years before I even understood that all Christians don't believe in the rapture.

It is only after realizing that the rapture doesn't fit the Bible and coming to realize that the rapture theory is a relatively new doctrine, that I have been able to finally see the truth. I do, however, still understand that I could be wrong and the rapture could be correct, but in looking at the Bible, as of now, I just don't see it.
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Well, if you think the letter to the Thessalonians is "relatively new", I guess so :D
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
Tom Bryant said:
Never mind, I don't want to debate about this. You won't change me and I won't change you. We both believe the Bible teaches us what we believe. I understand your view and don't agree with it. You understand my view and don't agree with it.
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I would encourage you to never close your mind and heart to changing a view. This kind of mindframe lends one to believe they cannot be wrong or if they are, oh well...
 
Tom Bryant

Tom Bryant

Well-Known Member
webdog said:
I would encourage you to never close your mind and heart to changing a view. This kind of mindframe lends one to believe they cannot be wrong or if they are, oh well...
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Thanks for the warning. But actually, if you see my other posts, I am certain that I am not completely right. I am not closing my mind. I am simply not debating it.

There are several reasons:
1. I don't have nor do i want to take the time to answer.

2. These debates keep springing up. They are never at an end. When one thread closes, another takes its place.

3. These issues have been debated since the time of Paul. In 2nd thess, they thot that Jesus had already come. So if we are debating them 2000 years later, it must mean that for reasons of God's own choice, He chose not to make it clear as He did other doctrines.

4. I'd rather talk about what kind of people the coming of Christ ought to make us according to Scripture: pure, expectant, busy.

So this is not a matter of closing my mind, just maintaining what little is left of my sanity.
 
J

Johnv

New Member
Tom Bryant said:
...this is not a matter of closing my mind, just maintaining what little is left of my sanity.
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The problem in topics such as these is not that people often disagree. The problem is that little respect is shown those with whom one disagrees. Unfortunately, we often go down the road of "I better accuse him before he accuses me". I'm no stranger to that mentality. I submit that discussions such as these can be better handled by dispensing more grace, respect, and civility in the course of conversation.
 
T

Tom Butler

New Member
webdog said:
We know they are the Jews. What we don't know is if there will be Gentile's who come to faith during the Great Tribulation. I tend to think there will be, hence the Angel proclaiming the Gospel to every nation (Rev. 14:6)
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Web, I'm pretty sure, as well, about Gentiles being saved during the Tribulation. But that's because I think the Holy Spirit will still be around to do his convicting and illuminating work.

You say, we know they are Jews in Rev. 13. How do we know that? How do we know they're not Gentiles?. Just looking for something more than a flat statement.
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
Tom Butler said:
Web, I'm pretty sure, as well, about Gentiles being saved during the Tribulation. But that's because I think the Holy Spirit will still be around to do his convicting and illuminating work.

You say, we know they are Jews in Rev. 13. How do we know that? How do we know they're not Gentiles?. Just looking for something more than a flat statement.
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I didn't mention Rev. 13. I believe they are Jews because Scripture states as such in Romans 11.

I believe God has worked differently toward man throughout time, but I think salvation is still by grace through faith. I don't believe the "Church" will be here during the GT, and the Gospel will be spread partly like it was in the OT and in an entirely new way as well.
 
E

Edward 1689er

New Member
So, is the Pre-Trib Rapture a product of some folks who wrongly interpreted the Scriptures? I am not sure about this, but I was thinking that the Church would be removed from the wrath of God (Rev. 3: 10).
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
Edward 1689er said:
So, is the Pre-Trib Rapture a product of some folks who wrongly interpreted the Scriptures? I am not sure about this, but I was thinking that the Church would be removed from the wrath of God (Rev. 3: 10).
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Well, Jesus interpreted it that way in comparing it to Lot being saved from S&G and Noah being saved from out of the flood. If it is good enough for The Christ to believe, it's good enough for me :thumbs:
 
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