Originally posted by BobRyan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by steaver:
[qb] Elo, the scriptures you list say nothing about "sins"... and nothing about... "we get to see what the sin cost us, how it affected our lives for evil".
Do you have any scriptures to support your beliefs?
God Bless!
Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
judgment includes all of the above. have you not ever been to a court of law where everything you have done wrong is exposed? and the witnesses are there to testify to what you did to them? In Jesus' case, He already knows and who knows if witnesses will be called against us or not? All I know is that in that judgment process, at the end of it, I will be declared "free to go" because I have been bought with a price - the precious blood of Jesus.
read the bolded parts in my post above, perhaps that will help
Interesting that the Bible is so clear on this and yet some do not see it.
Jude
14 It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, "" Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones,
15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.''
But some will say "yes but he did not add to that --- 'with cherries on top' - so it does not apply to me!!".
Then we have
2Cor 5
9 Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
But some will ignore this saying "ahh yes but it did not say -- 'and with cherries on top' so we can ignore this text too".
Then we have --
Rom 2
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,
10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
Ahh but some will say "that text also does not say 'and with cherries on top' so we can turn a blind eye to any part of it that displeases us as well".
All this we have seen before.
In Christ,
Bob </font>[/QUOTE]thank you, Bob - it is quite clear that every facet of life will be examined, in depth, by the Lord. If our good deeds will affect people so that they will praise God, then our bad deeds will also affect people and we will see the effects of it. This is judgment.
I wonder sometimes, that christianity focuses on the goodness and love of God, when there is the severity of God in equal measure. Many times Paul says to fear God, to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. Prov says the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Without the severity of God there is no grace, no mercy, no compassion, no love, and no judgment.
stevers,
I am at the end of discussing OSAS. We are just posting over each other. I have just a couple of thoughts, and then I will be on my way.
The severity of God will not allow all of those that are "saved" to enter the Kingdom of God. The road of salvation rests on a deeper issue than just getting "reborn". It rests on the will of man and on this we will be judged. For those who overcome, run the race, strive for holiness and purity and righteousness, contend for the faith, and worship in spirit and truth are those who will enter His Kingdom.
The OSAS issue banks on the watering down of the Gospel by assuming that God will not judge us as much when we walk out our lives, as well as in the end. If salvation were guaranteed to all who are saved, then there would be reason to suffer, to be corrected, to be instructed, to be disciplined. Without these, we are bastards, and not the sons of God.
Jesus told us the parable of the 10 virgins. They all received oil in their lamps - the oil is the Holy Spirit [there are many examples of this concept in the Scriptures]. They were ALL waiting for their Bridegroom to come back for them. But 5 of them were lethargic and did not go out and seek to ever be being filled with the Holy Spirit [per Paul]. They sat back doing nothing and allowing their lamps to become dry and useless. The other 5 searched diligently to remain full of the Holy Spirt, in an expectant state for their bridegroom. As the story goes, it was too late for the 5 who had no oil left.
The Scriptures in which we rest in the security for our salvation are for those who are seeking, contending, striving, loving God, worshipping Him in Spirit and Truth. If the others chose to live this way, they too could be assured of salvation. But if they turn their hearts from God, ignoring the Holy Spirit - their consciences being seared and hardened - there will come a time when God will no longer contend with them. That is the harsh reality of the severity and judgment of God.
The Kingdom of Heaven is not full of wanna be Christians floating in by the skin of their teeth, but those who continue to be filled by the power of the Holy Spirit that is alive and living to the depths of their souls.
Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;
To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;
He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;
To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Rev 2:26 And
He that overcometh , and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 3:5
He that overcometh , the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Rev 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Rev 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Thanx for the dialogue . . .
shalom
