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"predestinated"
- Thread starter SheepWhisperer
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SheepWhisperer
Active Member
Which of your hearts did it happen in? The one you have now which has evil thoughts?
Matthew is talking about the unconverted heart.Which of your hearts did it happen in? The one you have now which has evil thoughts?
Mat 15:19 - For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
Surely you are not saying that he is unsaved, right?
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
And you never have an evil thought, bro?
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
Um, no. You answer, then I will. Do you ever have evil thoughts?
Please post where I said I never have an evil thought. If you can't, perhaps an apology is in order?
SG seems to be right. When you cannot answer cogently you ask a question which assumes the poster is of lesser spirituality than you. Unfortunately your questions, which are by their very nature dishonest, seem to indicate the exact opposite.
So, back to the point. You are aware, are you not, that Jesus was explaining his statement made to the unbelievers of whom He said, in
Matthew 15:14 "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch."
So, again I ask, by applying that verse to SovereignGrace were you saying he is unsaved?
Again, which heart loves God?
Option A: The cold dead heart that is hard as a stone
Option B: The fleshly heart God gives them that loves Him
Which one? A or B?
SW seems to be under the mistaken impression that the new, living, heart of flesh is also a heart of total perfection, total holiness. I hate to be the one to bring him bad news but faith does not result in total perfection or total holiness. We still have the old man to contend with.
Plus, he's deflecting as he is trying to speak of the mind and not the heart. I asked him which heart loves God and then he deflects and asks if I have evil thoughts.
Huh? It's from the heart and not the mind that these things come from. It starts in the heart and then to the mouth. But he continually deflects, seeing he can't stay on topic. 
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
All that stuff in the Book of Ezekiel about the "heart of flesh", I do not understand all of it. But it is concerning the Nation of Israel. I won't go into it now. Please consider the following which definitely does concern individuals who have been saved and "regenerated".......
Romans 7
13Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Sir, we still sin because "sin" still dwells in us. No, I was NOT trying to say or imply that you are not saved. I was trying to get you to realize that it is YOUR heart, YOUR inner being who called on Jesus....YOU believed, not some separate "heart". You only have one "heart" and it sins just like mine does, and Cassidy's does. Am I "dishonest" Cassidy? Of course, sometimes, and so are you. But there is no unrighteousness with God and no limitation. He gave His only begotten Son, to be the propitiation, NOT of our sins only(yours, mine, and "SovereignGrace's") but ALSO for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD. God didn't do this thing halfway, His love is NOT limited. His love is as infinite and unfathomable as HE is. I don't know it all bro, but I know Him. Y'all have a wonderful day; I have a lot of work to do today. I'll check back later. God Bless.
God can still be a God both of Love and Justice/judgement!
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
Yes that is true. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit aka "the Comforter" will convince the world of sin, righteousness and judgment. That means He convicts sinners of their sin, God's righteousness and God's judgment. . As to our sin; we are dead in trespasses and sins with no hope. As to God's righteousness, the Bible says that "God is love" and He demonstrated His nature of love by sending His only begotten Son to live among us and to die on the cross to be the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. As to God's judgment, those who refuse to believe on His Son, will be cast into the Lake of Fire at the final judgment. But the Bible never says that God is "Justice" or "Judgment" it does say "God is love", His essential nature is love. He is not willing that any should perish. He is love my friend but He is not some weak milquetoast namby pamby: He is ALMIGHTY He alone holds the keys of death and Hell... When He has sinners cast into Hell it is THEIR own fault for not believing on His Son, not because He chose not to "enable" them. Please read Ezekiel 33:11, Deuteronomy 30:15-20
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Oy vey!! By using your (il)logic, we don't have to obey the Ten Commands, seeing they were given to Israel. We can't divorce because the decree of divorce was given to Israel. You can't fracture God's book and say this part is for the Jews and this part is for the Gentiles and this part is for both Jews and Gentiles. The bible was never intended to be exegeted that way, my Brother.
Brother, I know you weren't saying I was not saved, but thanks for saying it anyways. I truly appreciate it. Yes, it was I who believed. But I was once dead spiritually and had not the ability to believe. It was once God quickened me, gave me a new heart and spirit, and in this divine quickening came with it the gifts of faith and repentance. I could not and would not repent because of my cold dead heart, that was hard as a stone. To say that Ezekiel 11:19 and Ezekiel 36:26 pertain solely to Israel is horrible exegesis. That would mean that we don't have a new heart and spirit within us. That's not just horrible exegesis, but shoddy hermeneutics.
I am not trying to be nasty by busting your chops, my Brother, but to try to get you to realize your interpretative skills of the bible need improved.
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
Once again.
Do you still have evil thoughts? Do you still sin? Since the answer is "yes", how can you do so if your"stony heart" has been "taken out of your flesh"?
Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
God doesn't take your heart out or even remove the "old man" because I'm pretty sure you and I sin at least once a week; most likely every day. Again, I say, this passage is pertaining to Israel. It is most likely a prophecy concerning the second coming of Christ and the "nation born in a day" and all that; All of it is addressed in PLURAL pronouns spoken to the nation of Israel.. And my interpretive skills may not be on par with yours but even though I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer I can figure that if God "took out your stony heart" how could you still be a sinner? When you get saved, the heart which believes is yours. Please observe................
The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with one of your hearts? Nope, with the heart man believeth unto righteousness........... You only have one heart bro, "the" heart. The verse you quoted pertains to a prophecy concerning Israel. God doesn't want people to believe because they have been pre-programmed; He wants people to love Him "because He first loved us" out of their own will, out of true gratitude. That's the way He designed it to be, it's all in His plan. THEN, after they have been indwelled with His Spirit, they are then sealed to the day of redemption and have become one of the "elect", proclaiming His word, and predestinated to be conformed to the image of Christ and to the ultimate adoption as his child.
Do you still have evil thoughts? Do you still sin? Since the answer is "yes", how can you do so if your"stony heart" has been "taken out of your flesh"?
Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
God doesn't take your heart out or even remove the "old man" because I'm pretty sure you and I sin at least once a week; most likely every day. Again, I say, this passage is pertaining to Israel. It is most likely a prophecy concerning the second coming of Christ and the "nation born in a day" and all that; All of it is addressed in PLURAL pronouns spoken to the nation of Israel.. And my interpretive skills may not be on par with yours but even though I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer I can figure that if God "took out your stony heart" how could you still be a sinner? When you get saved, the heart which believes is yours. Please observe................
The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with one of your hearts? Nope, with the heart man believeth unto righteousness........... You only have one heart bro, "the" heart. The verse you quoted pertains to a prophecy concerning Israel. God doesn't want people to believe because they have been pre-programmed; He wants people to love Him "because He first loved us" out of their own will, out of true gratitude. That's the way He designed it to be, it's all in His plan. THEN, after they have been indwelled with His Spirit, they are then sealed to the day of redemption and have become one of the "elect", proclaiming His word, and predestinated to be conformed to the image of Christ and to the ultimate adoption as his child.
So. There you have it. God, and His word, is a liar. How utterly sad.
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
Did God remove your "stony heart" or is it still there, sinning from time to time when you're "walking in the flesh"? yes or no. The "stony heart" verse is about Israel bro.
You have one(1) heart sir. And it is with that heart that you choose to deny that God's salvation is offered to all. That is what's sad.
You have one(1) heart sir. And it is with that heart that you choose to deny that God's salvation is offered to all. That is what's sad.
Once more you post an untruth. I have said several times in these interminable threads that the Gospel call is Universal.
Yes, dishonesty is sad. Very sad.
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
You claim there's a "universal call" but only those "enabled" can answer? That's dishonest, sir.