Predestination is that of a saved man unto a resurrection body in Christ's image

[Barry Johnson]

Jeremiah 1:5
Psalms 139.
Romans 8:29.

Jeremiah 1:5 let's say this i

Jeremiah 1:5
Psalms 139.
Romans 8:29.

Aside from the misunderstanding your arriving at with those verses . They don't speak of us as existing like Jesus with the Father. Jesus actually existed with the Father . unless your adopting Mormon theology here ? They teach we were all once spirit babies on another planet before coming to earth . Where we forgot about this and we need to learn through the example Jesus gave us by following the commandments to endure to the end so that we too will possess our own planet one day . Where we will also create spirit babies to continue the eternal progression ?

 

[1689Dave]

1) No verse ever specifically states when predestination occurs
2) Predestination is never unto salvation
3) Predestination is unto adoption
4) Adoption is defined as the redemption of the body
5) Said adoption occurs at the resurrection
6) To bear the image of Christ's resurrection body is a blessing connected to salvation, not salvation per se

Please watch the whole video and prove it wrong WITH DEFINING CROSS-REFERENCES for the terms "predestination", "adoption", "image", etc.
In a parallel and earlier thread, the only one who had even attempted that was @ivdavid.
I disagree with him, but I respect the fact that he replied with such cross-references to define the terms.

How can you have a resurrection of an unsaved man into the image of Christ? Salvation is the entire process of resurrection of the human spirit followed by the resurrection of the flesh on the last day.

Paul says God makes of the same lump vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath.

 

[Dave G]

They don't speak of us as existing like Jesus with the Father

Amen.

Jesus actually existed with the Father . unless your adopting Mormon theology here ?

No.
Read the passages and believe the words, Barry.

They say that God "knew" someone before they were born.
He didn't just know about them, but knew them.

Then compare it to this:

" Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." ( Matthew 7:21-23 ).

 

[Barry Johnson]

Amen.

No.
Read the passages and believe the words, Barry.

They say that God "knew" someone before they were born.

Wheres that ? I see the spin your putting on the verses ,but where does it say that ? And what do you mean 'know '? conversationally? face to face? before they were born ? did God lose them ? did we forget ?

 

[Barry Johnson]

Amen.

No.
Read the passages and believe the words, Barry.

They say that God "knew" someone before they were born.
He didn't just know about them, but knew them.

Then compare it to this:

" Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." ( Matthew 7:21-23 ).

Yes Jesus never ' knew ' them meaning they were not saved . Jesus is not saying He never knew them before they existed .
Gal 4
8¶Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9But now after that you have known God ,or rather are known of God , how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

 

[Alan Gross]

1) No verse ever specifically states when predestination occurs
2) Predestination is never unto salvation
3) Predestination is unto adoption
4) Adoption is defined as the redemption of the body
5) Said adoption occurs at the resurrection
6) To bear the image of Christ's resurrection body is a blessing connected to salvation, not salvation per se

Please watch the whole video and prove it wrong WITH DEFINING CROSS-REFERENCES for the terms "predestination", "adoption", "image", etc.
In a parallel and earlier thread, the only one who had even attempted that was @ivdavid.
I disagree with him, but I respect the fact that he replied with such cross-references to define the terms.

weird

 

[George Antonios]

How can you have a resurrection of an unsaved man into the image of Christ?

You slipped in "unsaved" there. It's the resurrection of the saved.
Predestination is never that of a lost man unto salvation, but of a saved man unto a Christ-like resurrection body.
I take it you did not watch the video.

 

[George Antonios]

weird

I'll take that.

 

[1689Dave]

You slipped in "unsaved" there. It's the resurrection of the saved.
Predestination is never that of a lost man unto salvation, but of a saved man unto a Christ-like resurrection body.
I take it you did not watch the video.

I won't consider the video. But your post title ignores that a saved person is first resurrected spiritually through the new birth and it is salvation. If it were not, believers would not go to heaven before the resurrection of the body.

Plus, eternal life is without beginning or end. So the saved were always saved in God just as the damned were always damned in God. Paul proves this in Romans 9.

 

[George Antonios]

I won't consider the video.

Of course not, for thou hast attained.

 

[1689Dave]

Of course not, for thou hast attained.

All that you say is meaningless according to Paul who says salvation and damnation were determined eternally in God apart from any human influence.

 

[George Antonios]

All that you say is meaningless according to Paul who says salvation and damnation were determined eternally in God apart from any human influence.

Of course, no verse is provided.

 

[1689Dave]

Of course, no verse is provided.

Romans 9 covers it.

 

[George Antonios]

Romans 9 covers it.

Predestination is always of a saved man unto a Christ-like resurrection body. Romans 8 covers it.

 

[1689Dave]

Predestination is always of a saved man unto a Christ-like resurrection body. Romans 8 covers it.

This is not true. Election is salvation since it is of God and he cannot fail in bringing it to completion.

 

[George Antonios]

This is not true. Election is salvation since it is of God and he cannot fail in bringing it to completion.

I said "predestination". Not "election".

 

[1689Dave]

I said "predestination". Not "election".

It's the same in Reformed usage.

 

[George Antonios]

It's the same in Reformed usage.

And that's great, only we're concerned with Biblical usage.

 

[1689Dave]

And that's great, only we're concerned with Biblical usage.

That is the biblical usage.
“Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.” Romans 8:33 (NCPB)

Elect = justification.

 

[George Antonios]

That is the biblical usage.
“Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.” Romans 8:33 (NCPB)

Elect = justification.

So now we have: election = predestination = justification. Right.