Predestination

[Earth Wind and Fire]

What do you mean ?

OK here we go.

Men are regenerated by the Spirit of God, certainly by no man nor by anything that belongs to an earthly kingdom. Man has no part in the work of regeneration for: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6). "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God (Christ) which liveth and abideth forever" (I Peter 1:23). This work is accomplished without the agreement or assistance of man. "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing" (John 6:63). Many feel that God regenerates only through the means of the preached Word. If this were so, only those who hear and receive the Gospel would be saved and this we know is not so. God the Holy Spirit does the work of regeneration without the use of means or instrumentality's, but out of His own power. When God created man, He did so without the use of means. When a man is recreated (regenerated) the same is true.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

If they are not Chosen to salvation can they believe in your scheme ?

Scheme!?! Bad choice of words.

 

[Barry Johnson]

OK here we go.

Men are regenerated by the Spirit of God, certainly by no man nor by anything that belongs to an earthly kingdom. Man has no part in the work of regeneration for: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6). "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God (Christ) which liveth and abideth forever" (I Peter 1:23). This work is accomplished without the agreement or assistance of man. "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing" (John 6:63). Many feel that God regenerates only through the means of the preached Word. If this were so, only those who hear and receive the Gospel would be saved and this we know is not so. God the Holy Spirit does the work of regeneration without the use of means or instrumentality's, but out of His own power. When God created man, He did so without the use of means. When a man is recreated (regenerated) the same is true.

I also say that it is not possible for anyone to ' regenerate ' themselves. No man can place himself into Jesus Christ . No man can make himself a ' new creation ' .
Do you believe that if God has not elected a person ( Before they were born ) then they cannot believe anyway?

 

[Sai]

I also say that it is not possible for anyone to ' regenerate ' themselves. No man can place himself into Jesus Christ . No man can make himself a ' new creation ' .
Do you believe that if God has not elected a person ( Before they were born ) then they cannot believe anyway?

I believe that.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I also say that it is not possible for anyone to ' regenerate ' themselves. No man can place himself into Jesus Christ . No man can make himself a ' new creation ' .
Do you believe that if God has not elected a person ( Before they were born ) then they cannot believe anyway?

Now you are attempting to change the subject in order to divert. I have a sister who is Cerebral Palsy so she cannot read, she cannot comprehend scripture, she has lost her capacity to think with all the mental facilities that you or I possess. Now are you telling me that because she cannot read and comprehend scripture that she is lost?

 

[Sai]

Now you are attempting to change the subject in order to divert. I have a sister who is Cerebral Palsy so she cannot read, she cannot comprehend scripture, she has lost her capacity to think with all the mental facilities that you or I possess. Now are you telling me that because she cannot read and comprehend scripture that she is lost?

We were all born without God already condemned already headed to hell including her. Our hope is in the grace of God.

 

[Barry Johnson]

We were all born without God already condemned already headed to hell including her. Our hope is in the grace of God.

I believe God will always so what is right . He will Not dam a person who is unable ( literally unable ) so that we can be certain.

 

[Barry Johnson]

I believe God will always so what is right . He will Not dam a person who is unable ( literally unable ) so that we can be certain.

A child for example is not born to be doomed from the womb as Calvin told us

 

[Barry Johnson]

I believe that.

If you believe in unconditional Election then no matter what a person does He is going to hell ( if God has not hand picked him to be saved . its Gods fault . )

 

[Sai]

If you believe in unconditional Election then no matter what a person does He is going to hell ( if God has not hand picked him to be saved . its Gods fault . )

I believe scripture says that all men are already condemned and guilty before God already headed to hell and that God hand picked the elect while passing over others.

 

[Sai]

I believe God will always so what is right . He will Not dam a person who is unable ( literally unable ) so that we can be certain.

You’re belief is your opinion. It is not found anywhere in scripture that anyone gets a free pass because they were born with a disability. I know what I want to believe. But I do not claim to be able to judge God as being at fault for anything because I am a creation and my understanding is based on human emotions. The proper attitude for the elect is to view God’s work of election as the outworking of his grace and love. The fact that millions of people lived and died without ever hearing of Jesus proves that not all were called.

 

[Barry Johnson]

I believe scripture says that all men are already condemned and guilty before God already headed to hell and that God hand picked the elect while passing over others.

Well if the bible actually said that I would believe it . But quite clearly it teaches the exact opposite . Which means the way your reading the bible is not just slightly wrong.

 

[Barry Johnson]

You’re belief is your opinion. It is not found anywhere in scripture that anyone gets a free pass because they were born with a disability. I know what I want to believe. But I do not claim to be able to judge God as being at fault for anything because I am a creation and my understanding is based on human emotions. The proper attitude for the elect is to view God’s work of election as the outworking of his grace and love. The fact that millions of people lived and died without ever hearing of Jesus proves that not all were called.

Your assuming they never looked at creation , never had a conscience, never met a Christian, never heard of the bible , Jesus or heard the Gospel. That's a radical claim.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We were all born without God already condemned already headed to hell including her. Our hope is in the grace of God.

so your conclusion is what? What is her path to salvation or are you saying because she can’t understand scripture then she is relegated to hell?!?

 

[Barry Johnson]

I believe scripture says that all men are already condemned and guilty before God already headed to hell and that God hand picked the elect while passing over others.

They are condemned already ( John 3 ) because they refuse to believe the truth so as to be saved . The ' light ' has gone out onto All the world . Satan can block this light ( blinding the minds towards those who have ' given themselves over ' rom 1 ) The Holy spirit convicts the world !!!!! of sin ( because they believe not ) righteousness and judgement) this is clear and simple that you would need a philosophical system to undo the plain reading of the text .

 

[Barry Johnson]

so your conclusion is what? What is her path to salvation or are you saying because she can’t understand scripture then she is relegated to hell?!?

If someone is literally unable to believe then they could not be guilty of rejecting the truth so as to be saved .

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

If someone is literally unable to believe then they could not be guilty of rejecting the truth so as to be saved .

They don’t reject... they can’t comprehend. Look—- "By grace are ye saved" (Ephesians 2:8).

 

[Barry Johnson]

If someone is literally unable to believe then they could not be guilty of rejecting the truth so as to be saved .

A baby is not able to believe the truth so as to be saved . Therefore no baby could be guilty of

They don’t reject... they can’t comprehend. Look—- "By grace are ye saved" (Ephesians 2:8).

They don’t reject... they can’t comprehend. Look—- "By grace are ye saved" (Ephesians 2:8).

They don’t reject... they can’t comprehend. Look—- "By grace are ye saved" (Ephesians 2:8).

Are you saying they are not rejecting the truth in Acts 13 ?
46Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.????
In eph 2 .8 it is simply saying that we are not saved by works . its through faith , not of ourselves and salvation is a gift and not a reward for works . That's it simple..The bible is clear on this.

 

[Barry Johnson]

A baby is not able to believe the truth so as to be saved . Therefore no baby could be guilty of



Are you saying they are not rejecting the truth in Acts 13 ?
46Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.????
In eph 2 .8 it is simply saying that we are not saved by works . its through faith , not of ourselves and salvation is a gift and not a reward for works . That's it simple..The bible is clear on this.

They don’t reject... they can’t comprehend. Look—- "By grace are ye saved" (Ephesians 2:8).

Romans 3 clearly shows Faith is not a work .
27¶Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

 

[Sai]

Your assuming they never looked at creation , never had a conscience, never met a Christian, never heard of the bible , Jesus or heard the Gospel. That's a radical claim.

It is a fact that those tribes around the world had no contact with anyone connected to the gospel. South America, Polynesia, Japan. The fact is that throughout the entire Old Testament no one was saved besides Israel and those who proselyted into their religion. The masses of races of people died without God