"Predestined According to the Purpose of Him Who Works all things According to the Counsel of His Will", Ephesians 1:11.

[Brightfame52]

I'm having problems finding where it says they were predestined to salvation before the foundation of the world.

Show it to me.

Thats not my concern, Im showing you what I see, its clear to me.

 

[Charlie24]

Thats not my concern, Im showing you what I see, its clear to me.

Well then you have no need to show anything to me.

You have it figured out, just hope your right.

Especially the part about being saved before the foundation of the world.

You'll need some special luck with that!

 

[kyredneck]

That says they were predestined to be conformed into the image of Christ.

It doesn't say they were predestined to be saved. You're assuming that's what it says.

Being predestined to be conformed into the image of Christ is done through God's plan of redemption.

Do you think maybe that's what we are predestined to?

I think those ‘predestined before the foundation of the world to be conformed into Christ’ are ‘vessels of mercy afore prepared unto glory’.

 

[Silverhair]

Wrong. The passages definitely prove that election is of individuals, not corporately as you all attempt to corrupt the doctrine.

This was the question KY "where in the Scripture do you see the individual predestined or picked for salvation before the foundation of the world."

Yes people are saved on an individual basis when the freely choose to trust in Jesus but we are made part of the corporate body of Christ.

 

[Silverhair]

I think those ‘predestined before the foundation of the world to be conformed into Christ’ are ‘vessels of mercy afore prepared unto glory’.

So you must also hold to the view that those predestined to hell have no choice in the matter. But that would cause a serious contradiction in scripture and calls into question the character of God

So logically your pre chosen view is cannot biblical but is something from the fertile imaginations of the early Calvinists

 

[Charlie24]

I think those ‘predestined before the foundation of the world to be conformed into Christ’ are ‘vessels of mercy afore prepared unto glory’.

I would agree with you IF the Scripture said they were predestined to salvation.

But it doesn't say that. You're reading that in without any consideration of man's free will.

 

[Silverhair]

I think those INDIVIDUALS that are “conformed to the image of Christ” are definitely ‘saved’.

They are conformed to the image of Christ after they are saved through sanctification.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

misinterpret the usage of the terms elect and predestined and foreknow in Scripture.

You think that you've made up some far off lies to fraudulently represent a fake definition that you pretend that each of these words means,
in order to Worship man as opposed to Worshipping God, which in no way have any relationship
to the actual Scriptures that they are normally associated with?

Keep them to yourself.

They are as boring as they are useless.

"God saw me choose, so He Elected me." (???) Dah, WHY? Dumb.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Where in all of this Scripture do you see the individual predestined or picked for salvation before the foundation of the world?

Number 1?

I. We praise the Father for Predestining us to be His children,
and therefore Choosing us unto Salvation in Christ before the Foundation of the World (Ephesians 1:3-7):

“... the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ ... Chose us in Him before the Foundation of the World,
that we should be Holy and without blame before Him in Love, having Predestined us to Adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself,
according to the Good Pleasure of His Will, to the Praise of the Glory of His Grace, by which He Made us Accepted in the Beloved.
In Him we have Redemption through His Blood, the Forgiveness of sins, according to the Riches of His Grace.”

 

[Charlie24]

Number 1?

I. We praise the Father for Predestining us to be His children,
and therefore Choosing us unto Salvation in Christ before the Foundation of the World (Ephesians 1:3-7):

“... the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ ... Chose us in Him before the Foundation of the World,
that we should be Holy and without blame before Him in Love, having Predestined us to Adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself,
according to the Good Pleasure of His Will, to the Praise of the Glory of His Grace, by which He Made us Accepted in the Beloved.
In Him we have Redemption through His Blood, the Forgiveness of sins, according to the Riches of His Grace.”

Key phrase, "In whom we have redemption through His blood."

We were chosen before the foundation of the world to be in Him by redemption through His blood.

Not chosen for salvation as to who will be saved.

"The adoption of children" is not the individual being chosen for salvation, but the manner in which one becomes child of God.

 

[Ben1445]

You think that you've made up some far off lies

I should hope I don’t. You seem to know my mind better than I do.

1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him?

to fraudulently represent a fake definition that you pretend that each of these words means,

They are actually dictionary definitions that actually exist and fit the context of Scripture. They don’t fit the doctrines of Calvinism which is why you don’t like them. I don’t have to pretend.

in order to Worship man as opposed to Worshipping God,

Nobody is worshipping man. You are a drama queen.

which in no way have any relationship
to the actual Scriptures that they are normally associated with?

Normally in your experience. I use words with commonly accepted meanings and don’t add entries to any dictionaries.

Keep them to yourself.

When you keep Calvinism to yourself, I still wouldn’t keep it to myself because I believe in teaching Scripture and doing it faithfully to the intended meaning of the Author. I have no intention of spreading lies as you accuse me of. You have done everything but call my interpretation of Scripture, which is not privately held, heretical.

They are as boring as they are useless.

Don’t read my posts if they bother you.

"God saw me choose, so He Elected me." (???) Dah, WHY? Dumb.

“Dumb”- an amazing word of theological wisdom.

I’ll explain it again for anyone willing to attempt to understand. And yes, you asked me to.

Dah, WHY?

No man is ever able on his own to come to God. So God commended His love toward us. While we were sinners, Christ died for us.
Not only for the elect but also for the ungodly.

Romans 5:6
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

God has offered salvation to all mankind, not just some of mankind. Man has a sin nature from the fall. This is why we need salvation. Unfortunately, many people take the broad path to destruction. It is of their own choosing. They refuse the gift that has been offered to all.
What God has not elected to save us and forgive us and restore us to the Garden of Eden or leave us resurrected to live eternally in this world. He has elected us to also be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. We have been chosen to be heirs with Him, not only an inheritance of His. Not only to be freed from sin but to be like Him. To be made just like Him. To be made the children of God.

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

This is an election and calling that is not required for God to save and redeem us. It is promised to all who are saved.

Election is about adoption and not salvation.

How you see man getting any glory out of God’s gift of salvation is beyond my comprehension.

 

[Charlie24]

Key phrase, "In whom we have redemption through His blood."

We were chosen before the foundation of the world to be in Him by redemption through His blood.

Not chosen for salvation as to who will be saved.

"The adoption of children" is not the individual being chosen for salvation, but the manner in which one becomes child of God.

What is missing is the person hearing the Gospel, believing the Gospel and being saved by faith through grace, the free will to choose.

That person has already been predestined to become a child of God by adoption through the blood of Christ.

It's the plan we are predestined for, not God choosing who will be saved.

 

[Ben1445]

Number 1?

I. We praise the Father for Predestining us to be His children,
and therefore Choosing us unto Salvation in Christ before the Foundation of the World (Ephesians 1:3-7):

We are chosen because we are in Christ. We are not chosen to be in Christ.

“... the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ ... Chose us in Him before the Foundation of the World,

We are chosen because we are in Christ and to to become part of Christ.

that we should be Holy and without blame before Him in Love, having Predestined us to Adoption

Because predestination is about adoption.

as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself,
according to the Good Pleasure of His Will, to the Praise of the Glory of His Grace, by which He Made us Accepted in the Beloved.

Because God gets the glory for doing this work that we can only trust Him for and could never undertake to do for ourselves.

In Him we have Redemption through His Blood, the Forgiveness of sins, according to the Riches of His Grace.”

Amen

 

[Zaatar71]

Sorry KY but none of those verse prove the point you ware trying to make.

It’s been explained to you all many times, and it’s proven to be a useless endeavor, not because you can’t understand it, you refuse to.

So.. when you cannot understand the verses, you try and say the person trying to help you, does not understand?lol We can all see your posts, we see who understands and who does not. Ky made a solid ,instructive post, you should listen to what he is saying/

 

[Zaatar71]

Well then you have no need to show anything to me.

You have it figured out, just hope your right.

Especially the part about being saved before the foundation of the world.

You'll need some special luck with that!

Here you go;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Before the world began....
or here;
Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

"...It is not surprising that even professing Christians are unaware of the Doctrine of Divine Predestination.

"Many preachers deny that Divine Predestination is in God’s Word. (Their denial speaks of their lack of Biblical knowledge and/or personal integrity.)

"Many preachers, while admitting that Divine Predestination is in God’s Word, do not preach it because they do not understand or believe it.

"Many preachers deny the Biblical Doctrine of Divine Predestination because they know it is contrary to their own Doctrine of man’s “freewill”.

But you can praise it if you like.

Lol, why? What’s the use? It’s been explained to you all many times, and it’s proven to be a useless endeavor, not because you can’t understand it, you refuse to.

It doesn't say they were predestined to be saved. You're assuming that's what it says.

Do you think maybe that's what we are predestined to?

But what does the verse say they were predestined to?

Being "Called", "Justified", and "Glorified".

They were predestined to His plan of redemption, not who would be saved or not saved.

You're going to have to equate "His Plan of Salvation" and "who would be saved or not saved."

There is no trickery available that can make them different.

So, you have to be a Calvinist now.

Have you seen where "they" were, "Called according to His Purpose", were "Called" to be "Justified" in Salvation and
"whom He did Predestinate, them He also Called:
and whom He Called, them He also Justified: and whom He Justified, them He also Glorified"
that has everything to do with describing the Salvation of the Elect, Predestined, i.e.,
"Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's Elect? It is God that Justifieth.

Romans 8:28; "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God,
to them who are the Called according to His Purpose.

29; "For whom He did Foreknow, He also did Predestinate to be Conformed to the Image of His Son,
that He might be the Firstborn among many brethren.

30; "Moreover whom He did Predestinate, them He also Called:
and whom He Called, them He also Justified: and whom He Justified, them He also Glorified".

31; "What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32; "He that Spared not His Own Son, but Delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also Freely Give us all things?

33; "Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's Elect? It is God that Justifieth.

34; "Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is Risen Again,
who is even at the Right Hand of God, Who also Maketh Intercession for us."

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

You have it figured out, just hope your right.

Especially the part about being saved before the foundation of the world.

Has there been anyone who said anything about, "being saved before the foundation of the world"?

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

What is missing is the person hearing the Gospel, believing the Gospel and being saved by faith through grace, the free will to choose.

Absolutely CORRECT!!

What is entirely missing in The Bible is "the free will to choose".

That person has already been predestined to become a child of God by adoption through the blood of Christ.

Absolutely CORRECT!!

According if you know how to read what you actually wrote.

You, sir, are a Calvinist.

 

[Silverhair]

So.. when you cannot understand the verses, you try and say the person trying to help you, does not understand?lol We can all see your posts, we see who understands and who does not. Ky made a solid ,instructive post, you should listen to what he is saying/

I would if what he had said was actually biblical.

You like him because you are of the C/R philosophy.

I do not as I am of the biblical understanding.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Choosing us unto Salvation

Chose us in Him before the Foundation of the World

that we should be Holy and without blame before Him in Love, having Predestined us to Adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself,
according to the Good Pleasure of His Will

We are chosen because we are in Christ.

So, you are saying that once someone is "in Christ", then what happens? You're saying that NEXT, God Chooses" them...

How stupid is that? You have God doing something stupid.

We are chosen because we are in Christ and to to become part of Christ.

Got to be as stupid a concept as any other unfathomable "free will" scheme tried = for him of whom "it is not of him that willeth".

Because predestination is about adoption.

Neither is utterly divorced from the element of Salvation, of which they are both fully and intimately involved.

Because God gets the glory for doing this work that we can only trust Him for and could never undertake to do for ourselves.

Finally, you've become a Calvinist just like your buddy. Just jump right in on the band wagan why don't you?