"Predestined According to the Purpose of Him Who Works all things According to the Counsel of His Will", Ephesians 1:11.

[Ben1445]

So, you are saying that once someone is "in Christ", then what happens? You're saying that NEXT, God Chooses" them...

How stupid is that? You have God doing something stupid.

Ridicule isn't an intelligent rebuttal. You may call it stupid. But it is God's idea. I believe it. (If you want to talk about what doesn't make sense we can talk about God calling the people he already has a relationship with before they existed and before the world was made.)
Yes. we were chosen in Christ. We were not chosen into Christ. Any person in Christ is predestined to the adoption of sons. God chose all who trust Christ to have the adoption of sons. why is that stupid? He didn't have to do that.

Got to be as stupid a concept as any other unfathomable "free will" scheme tried = for him of whom "it is not of him that willeth".

even in free will, we don't have the will to overcome our sin, so salvation is still of God and not of men. Nobody is offering gifts for salvation for themselves.
But Peter did preach and tell the people to save themselves.
Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
I won't misquote him as you often do me and say that he is telling them to will themselves salvation out of their own sin.

and I have no arguments with Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
So the sinners will must be involved! And if it isn't free will, it isn't the sinners will.
Clearly, the will of the person who is saved is involved because Romans says that the mercy of God is not because we desire to respond to Christ. It is clearly in Scripture a work of God. You are the only one who gives Arminians, and people like myself also who are not Arminians, any kind of recognition for willing ourselves to God. It is "assailment-by-entailment" and it is a waste of time accusing me of something that I don't believe.

Because predestination is about adoption.

Neither is utterly divorced from the element of Salvation, of which they are both fully and intimately involved.

They are involved later, not yet. We are not like Him yet. See Romans 8 about adoption. nobody divorced them from salvation. they are a result of salvation.

Because God gets the glory for doing this work that we can only trust Him for and could never undertake to do for ourselves.

Finally, you've become a Calvinist just like your buddy. Just jump right in on the band wagan why don't you?

People who give glory to God are not exclusively Calvinist. This is a logical fallacy that only Calvinists give God the glory for their salvation. It would help you to carry on a respectable conversation if you did not have so many preconceived ideas about who you are talking to. We trust Jesus for salvation the same as you. We recognize that God gave us a choice and you don't. that doesn't make the plan of salvation different. it makes our views different.

 

[Silverhair]

Has there been anyone who said anything about, "being saved before the foundation of the world"?

Well since one is only elect when they are in the Elect One, Jesus Christ, and according to any number of those of the C/R view they were elect B4 the foundation of the world then they must think they are saved before the foundation of the world.

 

[Brightfame52]

Well then you have no need to show anything to me.

You have it figured out, just hope your right.

Especially the part about being saved before the foundation of the world.

You'll need some special luck with that!

I cant make you see the truth, duh however I still proclaim what I see as the truth.

 

[Brightfame52]

Well since one is only elect when they are in the Elect One, Jesus Christ, and according to any number of those of the C/R view they were elect B4 the foundation of the world then they must think they are saved before the foundation of the world.

In the eternal phase of Salvation the elect are saved from or before the foundation of the world. Saving Grace and Purpose were given them in Christ before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

And thats something the preacher should not be ashamed of proclaiming according to Vs 8

8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

 

[Silverhair]

I cant make you see the truth, duh however I still proclaim what I see as the truth.

You just proclaim what you see as the truth and I just point out the obvious errors of what you see as the truth.

You use philosophy to support your view and I give you scripture to support mine.

 

[Brightfame52]

You just proclaim what you see as the truth and I just point out the obvious errors of what you see as the truth.

You use philosophy to support your view and I give you scripture to support mine.

In my opinion you show that you are adverse to the Truth of God.

 

[atpollard]

Where in all of this Scripture do you see the individual predestined or picked for salvation before the foundation of the world?

It is right here, in Ephesians 1:11, among other places:

II. We praise God for Predestining our Eternal Inheritance in Christ (Ephesians 1:11):
“In Him also we have obtained an Inheritance, being Predestined according to the Purpose of Him
Who Works all things according to the Counsel of His Will.”

Point it out and explain it, I don't understand.

Ok.

”Ephesians 1:11” = “Where in all of this Scripture”
(Exegesis: The letter of Paul to the Ephesians qualifies as Scripture)

“In Him also we have obtained an Inheritance” = “for salvation”
(Exegesis: The “inheritance” which Paul is referencing in Ephesians 1 is eternal life …
that we have “obtained” the inheritance of “eternal life” is “salvation”.)

“being Predestined according to the Purpose of Him Who Works all things” = “the individual predestined or picked”
(Exegesis: The requested reference to the individual - the subject of Ephesians 1:11 - being “predestined” is provided
and clarified as “according to the Purpose of” God rather than any knowledge of our choice.)

“according to the Counsel of His Will.” = “before the foundation of the world”
(Exegesis: I apologize since this one will require some thought on your part, unlike the rest of your request that
just requires a willingness to admit the obvious … clearly “the Counsel of God’s Will” makes predestination
100% God’s choice … that is self-evident. ”WHEN” becomes a matter that requires some thought. Does
God change? Does God’s plan change? Does God learn new things? Does God adjust His plan and His
Will based on outside forces controlling Him? … NO! Emphatically, to all of them. Therefore, the Will of God
is as immutable as His other characteristics. That places the Counsel of His Will fixed in eternity past and
unchanged in eternity future. God’s Will is God’s immutable will … so it WAS “before the foundation of
the world”.)

 

[Silverhair]

In the eternal phase of Salvation the elect are saved from or before the foundation of the world. Saving Grace and Purpose were given them in Christ before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

And thats something the preacher should not be ashamed of proclaiming according to Vs 8

8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

BF you really need to learn how to study the bible. You make so many errors because you cherry pick verses that you think support your view.

The bible does not contradict itself but the way you use the bible it is full of contradictions.

God's purpose is so certain that Paul can write as if it were done in the past.

One is only in Christ when they believe in Him which biblically is when we freely respond to the gospel message with faith.

Before the world was made, God planned to give people eternal life, but this gift becomes theirs only through faith in the risen Christ who conquered death on the cross.

 

[Silverhair]

In my opinion you show that you are adverse to the Truth of God.

And there in lays the difference BF. You state your opinion and I use the Word of God to show your errors.

I do not doubt that you think your view is biblical but your misuse of scripture points out your error.

As C H Spurgeon said:
“DISCERNMENT is not simply telling the difference between what is Right and Wrong; rather, it is the difference between Right and Almost right.”

 

[Brightfame52]

BF you really need to learn how to study the bible. You make so many errors because you cherry pick verses that you think support your view.

The bible does not contradict itself but the way you use the bible it is full of contradictions.

God's purpose is so certain that Paul can write as if it were done in the past.

One is only in Christ when they believe in Him which biblically is when we freely respond to the gospel message with faith.

Before the world was made, God planned to give people eternal life, but this gift becomes theirs only through faith in the risen Christ who conquered death on the cross.

I have discussed with you before about the different phases of salvation and you cant comprehend it. You even deny the future salvation of the saints, the Glorified Phase of Salvation.

 

[Brightfame52]

And there in lays the difference BF. You state your opinion and I use the Word of God to show your errors.

I do not doubt that you think your view is biblical but your misuse of scripture points out your error.

As C H Spurgeon said:
“DISCERNMENT is not simply telling the difference between what is Right and Wrong; rather, it is the difference between Right and Almost right.”

From the eternal perspective, Gods elect have always been saved by His Eternal Purpose.

 

[Silverhair]

I have discussed with you before about the different phases of salvation and you cant comprehend it. You even deny the future salvation of the saints, the Glorified Phase of Salvation.

Where do you come up with the really dumb comments BF.

Care to show me where I denied the future salvation of the saints?

I think you just make wild accusations of the top of your head and you think that will justify your false views

 

[Silverhair]

From the eternal perspective, Gods elect have always been saved by His Eternal Purpose.

God always knew who would freely trust in His risen son for their salvation.

But foreknowing who would do so is not election B4 creation such as you want to claim.

Remember one is only elect when they are in the Elect One, Christ Jesus.

 

[Brightfame52]

Where do you come up with the really dumb comments BF.

Care to show me where I denied the future salvation of the saints?

I think you just make wild accusations of the top of your head and you think that will justify your false views

I have spoke to you about the different phases of salvation and you just denied and scoffed. I showed you that saved people will still experience a phase of salvation at the Coming of the Lord Rom 13 11

And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

And you act like those words dont even exist

 

[Brightfame52]

God always knew who would freely trust in His risen son for their salvation.

But foreknowing who would do so is not election B4 creation such as you want to claim.

Remember one is only elect when they are in the Elect One, Christ Jesus.

So if God already knew, and He went on and created them, there want any possibility of them being lost. God knew they were saved b4 He created them. DUH

 

[Silverhair]

I have spoke to you about the different phases of salvation and you just denied and scoffed. I showed you that saved people will still experience a phase of salvation at the Coming of the Lord Rom 13 11

And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

And you act like those words dont even exist

You have made a number of false comments about salvation and I have pointed them out to you.

But you have not shown me where I denied the glorification of the saints. Why would I do that as I am looking forward to my own when Christ comes back or I am called home.

When have we even discussed Rom 13:11?

You continue to pull these wild comments from the top of your head BF.

You may have me confused with some other person.

 

[Silverhair]

So if God already knew, and He went on and created them, there want any possibility of them being lost. God knew they were saved b4 He created them. DUH

God foreknowing what will happen does not cause it to happen. God does not create saved people BF just as He does not create lost people.

That is the problem that your view creates BF, if your claim were true than God would be responsible for all those in hell as well as for all those that are saved. Remember according to you He is the one who creates for a specific purpose.

The free decisions of human beings determine what foreknowledge God has of them, as opposed to the reverse. The foreknowledge does not determine the free decision; it is the free decisions that determine the foreknowledge.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

When have we even discussed Rom 13:11?

Thats the issue, I brought it up and you ignored it.

What mans religion teaches about faith and repentance !

Name calling now, i get it Just saying what it really is.

www.baptistboard.com

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

God foreknowing what will happen does not cause it to happen.

Actually it does. How could it happen if He didnt create them ? Who is the first cause of someone being created into existence ?

 

[Silverhair]

@Silverhair



Thats the issue, I brought it up and you ignored it.

What mans religion teaches about faith and repentance !

Name calling now, i get it Just saying what it really is.

www.baptistboard.com

BF you post many verses that I do not respond to because they have naught to do with the discussion.

By not responding to Rom 13:11 does not mean I disagree the saints glorification. That is just you once again reading to words what you want to find.