Premillennialism, Amillennialism, and Post-?

[BobRyan]

Post-Trib and Pre-Mill, here.

Apparently Matthew is in full agreement

Matt 24
9 "" Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
10 ""At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
11 ""Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.
12 ""Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.
13 "" But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

These events could easily apply to the early church, persecution by the Jews, Persecution by pagan Rome, persecution by Papal Rome and to the final persecution of the last days. All would see these same events.


============================================================================

The time line according to Matthew 24

1. church age continues <== you are here! Matthew 24:4-15

2. Tribulation time Matthew 24:21-28

3. Second Advent of Jesus event Matthew 24:29-30)

4. rapture/resurrection event Matthew 24:31-44, Rev 20:4-5

5. Millennium - Rev 20:5-end

Matt 24
14 ""This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Not until the Gospel has gone into the entire world - will Christ come - and this was spoken by Christ pre-cross and then published by Matt post-cross - as a "future event". The Gospel going into all the world - an event we "Still" wait for.. This scope applies to “all mankind” not just Jews.

Matt 24
15 ""Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place ( let the reader understand),
16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains;
17 Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house.
18 Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.
19 ""But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
20 ""But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.

Where was “the holy place” in the days of Christ – was it outside of the city in the burial grounds?

Jer 31
38 ""Behold, days are coming,'' declares the LORD, ""when the city will be rebuilt for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate.
39 ""The measuring line will go out farther straight ahead to the hill Gareb; then it will turn to Goah.
40 ""And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD; it will not be plucked up or overthrown anymore forever.''

Matt 24
21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
22 ""Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

The persecution of Christians by the Pagan Roman empire - and then persecution of Christians by the Holy Roman Empire - "The Dark Ages" - represents centuries of killing Christians - unprecidented in extent and length of time - in all of history.

This non-SDA link shows a chronology of the Matt 24 events that DOES have the 1260 years of the dark ages matched with the expected tribulation mentioned in Matt 24.
http://www.bibleexplained.com/Gospels/Matt/mt21-25/Mt24.htm

Matt 24:
23 "" Then if anyone says to you, "Behold, here is the Christ,' or " There He is,' do not believe him.
24 ""For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
25 ""Behold, I have told you in advance.
26 ""So if they say to you, "Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, "Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.
27 "" For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

The visibility of cloud-to-could lightning - from one end of heaven to the other - is the "comparison" made with the 2nd coming.

The coming is in the clouds - just as the lightning and just as the "signs".

Matt 24:
29 ""But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

 

[Bob Farnaby]

Amillenialist ,
the three books I found most helpful (years ago!) were

"The Momentous Event" by W J Grier
"The Meaning of the Millennium" edited by Robert Clouse
"In these Last Days" by William E Cox


As i said, was years ago, no idea if they are still in print.

Regards
Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The time line according to Matthew 24

1. church age continues <== you are here! Matthew 24:4-15

2. Tribulation time Matthew 24:21-28

3. Second Advent of Jesus event Matthew 24:29-30)

4. rapture/resurrection event Matthew 24:31-44, Rev 20:4-5

5. Millennium - Rev 20:5-end
--------------------------------------

The thousand years are "real" according to Rev 20. And the thousand years are actually "a thousand years".

What is interesting is that in Rev 19 and 20 you have the perfect premillennial second coming sequence described perfectly!

You also have the "First resurrection" at that 2nd coming event JUST as the post-trib view would have it - JUST as we saw in Matt 25 with the saints gathered to Christ post-trib!

It all fits!

 

[Ed Edwards]

The time line according to Matthew 24

1. church age continues <== you are here! Matthew 24:4-15
2. Tribulation time Matthew 24:21-28
3. Second Advent of Jesus event Matthew 24:29-30)
4. rapture/resurrection event Matthew 24:31-44, Rev 20:4-5
5. Millennium - Rev 20:5-end

Post-trib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues -- you are here
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(same 12-hour day as: 1. rapture/resurrection
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Sorry, the two are NOT the same.

------------------------------
The Thessalonians were familiar with
this saying of Jesus which we now find
recorded in Matthew 24:13 (KJV1873):

But he that shall endure unto
the end, the same shall be saved.

But some said of their friend "He got
sick and died before Jesus came to
get him, poor soul."

Paul addresses this problem in
a clearly pretribulation rapture passage
1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11,
one of the most comforting passages in the
Bible.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11 (nKJV):

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant,
brethren, concerning those who have fallen
asleep, lest you sorrow as others who
have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and
rose again, even so God will bring with Him
those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until
the coming of the Lord will by no means
precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend
from heaven with a shout, with the voice
of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain
shall be caught up (raptured)
together with them in the clouds to meet
the Lord in the air. And thus we shall
always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
5:1 But concerning the times and the seasons,
brethren, you have no need that I should
write to you.
2 For you yourselves know perfectly that
the day of the Lord so comes as a thief
in the night.
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!"
then sudden destruction comes upon them,
as labor pains upon a pregnant woman.
And they shall not escape.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness,
so that this Day should overtake
you as a thief.
5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day.
We are not of the night nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do,
but let us watch and be sober.
7 For those who sleep, sleep at night,
and those who get drunk are drunk at night.
8 But let us who are of the day be sober,
putting on the breastplate of faith and love,
and as a helmet the hope of salvation.
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath,
but to obtain salvation through our
Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep,
we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort each other and edify
one another, just as you also are doing.

Later the Thessalonians wondered if they
had missed the rapture. Paul corrects this
in a second letter:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (nKJV):

1 Now, brethren, concerning
the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
and our gathering together to Him,
we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled,
either by spirit or by word or by letter,
as if from us, as though the day of Christ
had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means;
for that Day will not come unless
the falling away comes first,
and the man of sin
is revealed, the son of perdition,

The falling away that comes first
is the Rapture!
Then the man of sin is revealed, the
antichrist. Then the Tribulation period
begins.

While the KJV uses "falling away" here, the
English versions before the KJV used a
form of "departure" - again, the idea of
someone leaving this world as in the pretribulation
rapture/resurrection

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (Geneva Bible):
Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for that day shall
not come, except there come a departing first, and that
that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition,


There is nothing HAS TO HAPPEN before
the rapture.
Here are some things that could happen
before the rapture but they do NOT
have to happen.

1) The destruction of Damascus (Isaiah 17)
2) the Ezekiel 38 Gog/Magog invastion
(the Ezekiel 39 and Revelation 20:8
Gog/Magog invasion will be after the
Tribulation period)
3) the building of a Temple in Jerusalem
on Mount Moriah north of and alongside
the Dome of the Rock.

But again, these things do not HAVE
TO HAPPEN before the rapture, they may
happen after the rapture; they could happen
before the rapture. They do not HAVE TO
HAPPEN before the imminent pretribulation
rapture.
------------------------------

 

[Ed Edwards]

Comparing the rapture/resurrection (R) AKA: gathering
with the Second Advent (SC): when Jesus comes
to destroy the Antichrist and set up the
Millennial Kingdom AKA: Glorious Appearance.

1R. Jesus comes for His own ( given physical bodies)
(John 14:3, 1 Thess 4:17)
1SC. Jesus comes with His own (already have physical bodies) (Rev 19:14)

2R. Jesus comes in the air (1 Thes 4:17)
2SC. Jesus comes to the earth
(Zech 14:4-5, Acts 1:11)

3R. Jesus comes to claim His Bride
(1 Thess 4:16-17)
3SC. Jesus comes with His Bride
(Rev 19:6-14)

4R. end of the Gentile Age
(Matthew 24:3, 24:31-44)
4SC. end of the Tribulation Period
(Revelation 19)

5R. Tribulation period begins
5SC. Millennial Kingdom begins

6R. Saved are delivered from wrath
(1 Thes 1:10, 5:9; Rev 3:10)
6SC. Unsaved experience the wrath of God
(Rev 6:12-17)

7R. No Signs precede the Rapture
(1 Thess. 5:1-3, Matthew 24:31-44)
7SC. Signs precede the Second Coming
(Luke 21-11-28, Matthew 24:21-30)

8R. Focus: Lord and Church
(1 Thess 4:13-18)
8SC. Focus: Israel and kingdom
(Romans 11)

9R. World is deceived (2 Thess 2:3-12)
9SC. Satan is bound (Rev 20:1-2)

10R. No judgement mentioned on earth
10SC. Follows the Tribulation period
judgement and followed by the sheep/goats
judgement.

11R. Time of joy. (1Thessalonians 4:17-18)
11SC. Time of sorrow. (Matthew 24:30)

12R. relative peace and prosperity. (Lk.17:26-30).
12SC. the worst war the world has ever seen. (Mt.24:21,22).

13R. Christians are promised they will be delivered
-- from the wrath to come
13SC. Israeli are told to flee the wrath to come

 

[Michael52]

amill

I would rather let the 100 (or so) clearer passages predominate over one less clear passage, than let the one passage force me to read the 100 with one eye closed.

I'm not trying to start a debate. I'm just explaining how I keep my head from spinning too much!

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
The time line according to Matthew 24

1. church age continues <== you are here! Matthew 24:4-15
2. Tribulation time Matthew 24:21-28
3. Second Advent of Jesus event Matthew 24:29-30)
4. rapture/resurrection event Matthew 24:31-44, Rev 20:4-5
5. Millennium - Rev 20:5-end

Post-trib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues -- you are here
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(same 12-hour day as: 1. rapture/resurrection
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Sorry, the two are NOT the same.

On the contrary - they are exactly the same. In Matt 24 the saints are "gathered together to Him" just as we see in 2Thess 2 - AFTER the tribulation.

Impossible to miss!

------------------------------

Ed said

Paul addresses this problem in
a clearly pretribulation rapture passage
1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11,
one of the most comforting passages in the
Bible.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11 (nKJV):

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant,
brethren, concerning those who have fallen
asleep, lest you sorrow as others who
have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and
rose again, even so God will bring with Him
those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until
the coming of the Lord will by no means
precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend
from heaven with a shout, with the voice
of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain
shall be caught up (raptured)
together with them in the clouds to meet
the Lord in the air. And thus we shall
always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Thus we see our "gathering together to Him" so that "Thus" (in THIS way) we may "ever be WITH
the Lord"[/b]

It is THE focus of the followers of Christ for without it they would have "No Hope"

It is THIS focal event of all believers that Christ points to in Matt 24 speaking of our gathering together to Him!

Impossible to miss!

2Thess 2 ALSO speaks of that SAME hope - that SAME event -- our "Gathering together to HIM" after the appearance of the man of sin and the great apostacy - (falling away).

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:

Later the Thessalonians wondered if they
had missed the rapture. Paul corrects this
in a second letter:

Actually they wondered if they had missed "The coming of the Lord" and our "Gathering together to Him" at the Coming of the Lord! (IF we want to be true to the text). We call that singular event - "the rapture"

Ed quotes -
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (nKJV):

1 Now, brethren, concerning
the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
and our gathering together to Him,
we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled,
either by spirit or by word or by letter,
as if from us, as though the day of Christ
had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means;
for that Day will not come unless
the falling away comes first,
and the man of sin
is revealed, the son of perdition,

The falling away that comes first
is the Rapture!

Wrong!

The "falling away" is just as we see in Gal 5 with those that "Fall from Grace".

We never see this term interpreted as "caught up to be with Christ". FALLING is never the way to go to heaven!

Obviously.

The falling away of the church (apostacy - predicted in Acts 20 and here in 2Thess 2) happened in the dark ages.

Obviously.

The text says that both this falling away AND the appearance of the man of sin must occur BEFORE the anticipated event that the church awaits - the rapture!

Thus Paul "corrects the error" they had been given about the 2nd coming having already occurred.

Clearly

Obviously

Without a doubt

(need I say more?

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Ed Edwards]

BobRyan: //The "falling away" is just as we see in Gal 5 with those that "Fall from Grace".//

Interesting, the Security Salvation people are pretribulation rapture;
the insecurity Salvation people are postribulation ONLY rature.

I'm Sorry, my God doesn't set people up in a test where only a couple of percent
can pass the test. Christians will NOT go into the Tribulation period
(BTW, there is no going into the Tribulation Period and going all the
way through. Salvation in the Tribulation PEriod dispensattion will be
ONLY by Martyrdom.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Ed Edwards said:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Comparing the rapture/resurrection (R) AKA: gathering
with the Second Advent (SC): when Jesus comes
to destroy the Antichrist and set up the
Millennial Kingdom AKA: Glorious Appearance.

1R. Jesus comes for His own ( given physical bodies)
(John 14:3, 1 Thess 4:17)
1SC. Jesus comes with His own (already have physical bodies) (Rev 19:14)

2R. Jesus comes in the air (1 Thes 4:17)
2SC. Jesus comes to the earth
(Zech 14:4-5, Acts 1:11)

3R. Jesus comes to claim His Bride
(1 Thess 4:16-17)
3SC. Jesus comes with His Bride
(Rev 19:6-14)

4R. end of the Gentile Age
(Matthew 24:3, 24:31-44)
4SC. end of the Tribulation Period
(Revelation 19)

5R. Tribulation period begins
5SC. Millennial Kingdom begins

6R. Saved are delivered from wrath
(1 Thes 1:10, 5:9; Rev 3:10)
6SC. Unsaved experience the wrath of God
(Rev 6:12-17)

7R. No Signs precede the Rapture
(1 Thess. 5:1-3, Matthew 24:31-44)
7SC. Signs precede the Second Coming
(Luke 21-11-28, Matthew 24:21-30)

8R. Focus: Lord and Church
(1 Thess 4:13-18)
8SC. Focus: Israel and kingdom
(Romans 11)

9R. World is deceived (2 Thess 2:3-12)
9SC. Satan is bound (Rev 20:1-2)

10R. No judgement mentioned on earth
10SC. Follows the Tribulation period
judgement and followed by the sheep/goats
judgement.

11R. Time of joy. (1Thessalonians 4:17-18)
11SC. Time of sorrow. (Matthew 24:30)

12R. relative peace and prosperity. (Lk.17:26-30).
12SC. the worst war the world has ever seen. (Mt.24:21,22).

13R. Christians are promised they will be delivered
-- from the wrath to come
13SC. Israeli are told to flee the wrath to come
-----------------------------------------------------------

Michael52 says he is an amill then says:
---------------------------------------------------------------
I would rather let the 100 (or so) clearer passages predominate
over one less clear passage, than let the one passage force
me to read the 100 with one eye closed.

I'm not trying to start a debate. I'm just explaining
how I keep my head from spinning too much!

---------------------------------------------------------------
Not one of my points is addressed. Nearly all my points have
scripture references given (I'd be glad to dig into the details,
if anybody was around long enough /probably two years/ to go into
the details. No, in an 'instant world' we want it all clear cut
and ear tickling.

BobRyan: //Clearly
Obviously
Without a doubt
(need I say more?//

Yes, say more. Show me how you get your readings out the scriptues.

The main difference between pretrib pre-mill and post-trib post-mill
is the Greek word 'KAI' which usually means 'and' in English.

I. -- In 2 Thessalonians 1 it is an 'and' connecting:
1. the Coming of our Lord Jesus
2. our gathering together unto Him

If 'and' here connects two equal sets, then it is just
two different names for the save event on the same day.

If 'and' here conencts two similiar sets, then it is two
different events at two different times.

and that difference in what 'and' means is the difference
between pretrib pre-mill and post-trib post-mil.

II. -- In Matthew 24:3 The disciples ask three questions:

1. when will the temple be destroyped
2. What is the sign of the Second Coming of Jesus
3. What is the sign of the end of the age.

Well, it is that way depending on the last KAI (and)
it could be two questions

III. -- the first KAI in Matthew 24:31 is IMHO a
polysendton AND used by Christ and the Greek language
to outline Christ's answer to the disciples question.
IMHO Matthew 24:31-44 is the answer of Christ to
the disciples question: " What is the sign of the end of the age."
The sign of the end of the age is THERE IS NO SIGN OF THE END
OF THE AGE. This age, the Time of the Gentiles
will end at the pretribulation rapture/resurrection
of the saints (AKA: gathering of the saints unto Christ).
There is no sign of when it will come.

Note that many will claim that Matthew 24:31 comes after
the Tribulation noted in Matthew 24:29. HOwever, Matthew 24:29
and Matthew 24:30 are part of the answer of the disciples:
" What is the sign of the Second Coming of Jesus?" and the
sign (not 'signs' as in 'many') of the Second Coming of Jesus
is the TRIBULATION Period which preceedes it.

THe first KAI in Matthew 24:31 is a ponysendeton AND.

ANother confusing KAI is in Revelation 20:4.
Two groups are delineated:

1. those sitting on thrones
2. those who did not take the mark of the Beast.

The KAI (and) that connects them, does it connect
two equal sets of people (both descriptors describe the
same set of people)? If so, then you won't be sitting
on a throne ruling with Jesus unless you are martyred for
not taking the mark of the Beast. Hey, what if you die before
you (as the postrib onlhy rapturists say) go into the
tribulation period?

IMHO the KAI (and) joings two similar sets:
1. those sitting on thrones represent those who were awarded
service on Earth with Jesus in the Millinnial Messanic Kingdom,
they died and were resurrected or livedand were raptured
in the pretribulation rapture/resurrection. At the Bema Judgement
in heaven during the Tribulation Period on earth, they were awarded
with service with Jesus in the Millinnial Messanic Kingdom.

The second group are those that were beheaded for not taking
the mark of the Beast (from the Sea AKA: Antichrist).

 

[Ed Edwards]

Pretrib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues <== you are here!
1. rapture/resurrection event
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
4. literal MK=millennial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

The time line according to Matthew 24
(Mount Olivet Discourse, also Matthew 25,
Mark 13, Luke 21):

0. church age continues <== you are here!
Matthew 24:4-15

1. rapture/resurrection event
Matthew 24:31-44

2. Tribulation time
Matthew 24:21-28

3. Second Advent of Jesus event
Matthew 24:29-30)

Not mentioned in Matthew 24:
(4. literal MK=millennial kingdom)
(5. new heaven & new earth)

The time line according to Revelation:

0. church age continues - Rev 2-3 <== you are here!
1. rapture/resurrection event - Rev 4:1 (type)
2. Tribulation time - Rev 4:2-19:10
3. Second Advent of Jesus event - Rev 19:11-21
4. literal MK=millennial kingdom - Rev 20:1-6
5. new heaven & new earth - Rev 20:7-22:5

The time line according to 2 Thessalonians 2:

0. church age continues <== you are here!
(implied, until the falling away)

1. rapture/resurrection
v.1 - gathering together unto him
v.3 - falling away

2. Tribulation time
(time of the man of sin)

3. Second Advent of Jesus event
v.1 - coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
v.8

Not mentioned:
(4. literal MK=millennial kingdom)
(5. new heaven & new earth)

BTW, I believed in the pre-tribulation rapture/resurrection
before i saw these three scriptures as pretrib.
So even if you can prove all three of these scriptures
in error, I'll still hope in the pre-tribulation rapture
as will 90% of Baptists and kindred Christians.

 

[Chemnitz]

Matthew 24 is not a this than this discourse its first a set of warnings to be watchful and the dangers of being decieved (4-35) while (36-ff) is a warning not to be caught unawares.

Ed if you are in error on these scriptures doesn't that cause you the least bit of concern about what else you are in error of? Or are you too stubborn to admit to the truth regardless of the evidence against you.

Concerning, Dr. Brighton, he believes in a literal return of Christ on the final day. In his book he largely ignores pre & post millenialism prefering to spend his time expounding the text rather than wasting space on polemics.

 

[Ed Edwards]

The Tribulation Period is a judgement:
-----------------------------------------
Five Judgements

The Lord God is a judging God

"To judge" can mean three things in the Holy Bible:

A. to discern between good and evil (human function)
B. to condemn, usually falsely (human function)
C. to reward the just & punish the evil (Godly function)

The Five Judgements:

1. Believers for SIN on the Cross
WHO: All who will Believe
WHEN: 33AD
WHERE: Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God is a merciful God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: found innocent by the Bood of Jesus

How to get from judgement 1 to judgement 2
(and avoid judgements 3, 4, or 5):

Romans 10:9 (KJV): "That if thou
shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from
the dead, thou shalt be saved."

2. Judgement Seat of Christ
WHO: Believers for works
WHEN: during the Great Tribulation on earth;
Right after the Rapture/Resurrection that starts
the Tribulation
WHERE: Heaven
WHY: to assign rewards (including
the Millinnial Kingdom rest)
to the redeemed for their good works
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: found innocent by the Bood of Jesus

3. Judgement of Yisrael under Antichrist
(Ezekiel 22:17-22 Time of Jacob's Trouble; Ezekiel 20:34-38;
Jeremiah 30:1-24; Revelation 6-19)
WHO: Yisrael
WHEN: during the Tribulation
WHERE: earth
WHY: The Lord God fulfills His promises
HOW: The wrath of God by Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Great Tribulation

4. Throne of His Glory judgement
(AKA: Sheep and Goats judgement, Matthew 25:31-46,
2 Cor 5:10, 1 Cor 3:11-15)
WHO: the nations: the living survivers of the Great Tribulation
(these people are NOT saved, they are human in human bodies)
WHEN: after the Great Tribulation, before the Millennial Age
WHERE: Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God fulfills His promises: God will bless those
who bless Yisrael and curse those who curse Yisrael
HOW: Judged by their treatment of Yisrael
WHAT: the cursed to Hell; the blessed to the Millennial Age

5. Great White Throne judgement
(Revelation 20:11:15)
WHO: the wicked dead
WHEN: after the Millennial Age; before endless ages
WHERE: between Hell and the Lake of Fire
WHY: The Lord God is not mocked
HOW: The wrath of God by Messiah Jesus
WHAT: the Messiah rejectors consigned to endless punishment

NOTE: The delineation of the five revealed
judgements above does not preclude other specific
or general judgements. One place on the net i found
a chart where TWENTY-FOUR judgements were delineated.
The Lord God is a judging God and His hand is not shortened
by His revelation to us nor
by our understaning of His revelation to us.

May Jesus our Savior and our Lord be Praised!

--compilation by ed,
incurable Jesus Phreaque

 

[Chemnitz]

Ed, that post made absolutely no sense at all.

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

Another amil (partial preterist) here. Sorry Ed, I think there are more than just a vocal minority here that hold this view.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Chemnitz: //Ed, that post made absolutely no sense at all. //

Eight years ago the Lord gave me this test of the spirits.
It is a simple evangelical message that clearly and biblically
delilneates the nature of the important judgements.
By using the five 'W's and an 'H' (Who, when, where, why, what)
the truth is more clear and precise. This
message has blessed dozens, maybe hundereds of Christians
and some who were not Christians when they first read it

If you don't like it, take it up with my Boss:
the Jewish Carpenter: Messiah Jesus.

 

[UUall]

Hello Ed

1 COR. 15 [51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, [52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Everyone ive ever heard agrees that the above scripture points out the time of the first resurrection, when the dead shall be raised.

REV. 20 [4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I SAW THE SOULS OF THEM that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and WHICH HAD NOT WORSHIPPED THE BEAST, NEITHER HIS IMAGE, NEITHER HAD RECEIVED HIS MARK UPON THEIR FOREHEADS, OR IN THEIR HANDS; AND THEY LIVED AND REIGNED WITH CHRIST A THOUSAND YEARS. [5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION. [6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Well Ed, here again we see the first resurrection. What we find here are peoples who did not take the mark of the beast PRIOR to the first resurrection. The same resurrection spoken of in 1Cor.15. So if those who are in the 1st resurrection had confronted the “beast” youve got to know that they went through the tribulation period. Right Ed?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

THE DIFFERENT RESURRECTIONS. There will not be one general resurrection. There are at least four different resurrections spoken of in the Bible. (1) The resurrection of Jesus Christ (1Co 15:20). The O.T. feast of first fruits was a picture of Christ's resurrection as the first fruit of those who sleep in death (Le 23:9-14). (2) The resurrection of N.T. believers at the Rapture (1Co 15:23; 1Th 4:13-17). (3) The resurrection of Israel and O.T. saints at the coming of Christ (Da 12:1-3,13; Re 20:4-6). (4) The resurrection of the unsaved dead following the Millennium (Re 20:5-15). The saved shall be raised to eternal glory; the unsaved to eternal punishment and shame (Joh 5:28-29).
taken from the Word of Life Encyclopedia

 

[Chemnitz]

If you don't like it, take it up with my Boss:
the Jewish Carpenter: Messiah Jesus.

Why should I take it up with Him? You are the one who is confusing and trying to twist his words into something He did not say.

 

[Ed Edwards]

\o/ Glory to the Lord \o/

\o/ Praise be to Jesus \o/

Five Resurrections
Found in the Holy Bible
Compared and Contrasted

The Lord God is a resurrecting God.

Definitions:

New Testament: God's contract on goy
Old Testament: God's contract on Yisrael
Resurrection: a person who was dead is alive
Saint: a person on God's list (AKA: Book of Life)
Tribulation: AKA: The Time of Jacob's Trouble (Jeremiah 30:4-7);
--Yisrael passing under the rod (Ezekiel 20:34-3;
--Melting Pot (Ezekiel 22:19-22);
--Time of Trouble (Daniel 12:1); etc.
Resurrection: a person who was dead is alive
goy - Yisraeli term for gentiles (probably slightly derogotory)
Yisrael - Transliteration of the Hebrew term for "Israel" into English.

How to get on God's list:

Romans 10:9 (KJV): That if thou
shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from
the dead, thou shalt be saved.


1. Resurrection of Jesus
WHO: Jesus
WHEN: 33AD
WHERE: Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal; because of the
resurrection of Jesus, all the other resurrections
are possible
References: Matthew 28:6, Mark 16:6, Luke 24:6-8


2. Resurrection of some Old Testament Saints
WHO: Some of those who died before Jesus believeing God, especially
those who believed in God's Messiah
WHEN: 33AD
WHERE: mostly in Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal

3. Resurrection of the New Testament Saints
WHO: Church age (AKA: times of the Gentiles) Saints; balance
of the Old Testament Saints
WHEN: Some date after 3 Sept 2005;
at the end of the Church Age; at the beginning of
the Tribulation
WHERE: Worldwide
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal;
this resurrection is followed in but a
moment by the translation of the living
saints into a glorified heavenly body like
that of Jesus
References: 1 Corinthians 15:52, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

4. Resurrection of the Tribulation Saints
WHO: Those beheaded for faith in Jesus; those
who reject the Mark of the Beast
WHEN: at the end of the Tribulation; at the
beginning of the 1,000-year reign of Jesus
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal
References: Revelation 20:4-6,

5. Resurrection of the non-Saints
WHO: All those throughout time who have rejected Jesus
WHEN: At the close of the 1,000-year reign of Jesus;
at the beginning of eternity
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: i don't know, God does
HOW: i don't know, God does
WHAT: Raised to eternal shame & damnation
References: Revelation 20:12-15

NOTE: The delineation of the five revealed
resurrections above
does not preclude other resurrections. The Lord God
is a resurrecting God and His hand is not shortened
by his revelation to us or
by our understaning of His revelation to us.
For example: Two Witnesses shall
be resurrected in the middle of the Tribulation.

There is a pastoral picture of the four resurrections
for which the resurrection of Jesus was a precusor
(numbered here as above):

2. The First Fruits (Matthew 27:22-53)

3. The Harvest (1 Corinthians 15:51-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

4. The Gleanings (Revelation 7:14, 20:4)

5. The Tares (Matthew 13:28-30)

Sometimes the Holy Bible calls resurrections 2-4, the resurrections
of the just: The First Resurrection (because all the
resurrections of the just preceede the resurrection
of the unjust).

The following scriptures seem to imply a simultaneous
resurrection of the just and the wicked dead:
Daniel 12:2, John 5:28-29 (all resurrected
in the same hour), Acts 24:15. Revelation 20-4-6
cleary notes that the just are raised one day
(a 1,000 year long day) before the unjust.

CAUTION: The numbering scheme 1 to 5 above was arbitrarliy
assigned to enable the discussion. There is nothing
sacred or Biblical about this numbering scheme.

May Jesus our Savior and our Master be Praised!

Note that ressurrections #2 and #3 are accompanied
by a rapture of living saints.

--compilation by ed, incurable Jesus Phreaque
---------------------------------------------

Tee hee, wasn't 'contract for AMerica' back
in the election of 1996? Probably when
The Lord gave me this writing.