Ed Edwards: //Surveys i've conducted at BB indicate that some 80% of the
current a-mills and post-trib pre-mills have SWITCHED
from the traditions of earlier generations of Baptist
and kindred church saints. Why do people hold to the
Salvation traditions and think it cool to swith eschatologies? //
FriendofSpurgeon: //Sorry Ed, wrong again. Most recent poll ---
Historic pre-mill --- 19%
Dispy pre-mill --- 30%
Amill --- 30%
NA --- 22% //
Our data is NOT in conflict.
BTW, you can't just slop data around and impress
90% of the population of this board.
Chemnitz: //I am not attacking you, I am saying you don't make any sense,
if you are hard to understand or your point is not clear then
it is mighty hard to respond, in other words please clarify.
You have posted these giant lists with no clear point to them
or explanation of what you are doing with the lists.//
Interesting put down. One of the lists i've been working on
for 15 years bouncing it against other people and perfecting it.
My first who?/what?/where?/when?/why? lists didn't have scirptures,
the ones today do. Shurely you recogzine the new hound's five questions?
I developed these lists while totally emersed in the study of
the scriptures. Almost 1/3 of the New Testament is such prophetic
documents. And a New Testament sized part of the Old Testament is
about the Millinnial Messanic Kingdom. Sorry, but I DISBELIEVE that
your problem is 'I don't make any sense' I discern you are a trouble
maker.
Again, I've been discusing Eschatological theories Since July 1984
on the Bulletin Boards (they were called Posting Boards then) alone.
I was NOT unaware of Eschatological theories before having been saved
in 1952 by a traving pre-trib Baptist Evangelist whose name i've long
forgot. He seemed woried about the Russian Cargo Aircraft (now they
have the largest production model Cargo Carrier in the world) carying
horses around and horsemen. But anyway, I digress.
Chemnitz: //BTW going through the news while reading Matthew 24
has been enough to prove that we are living in the endtimes
and that the tribulation is now and not some future event.//
I have an analysis of Matthew 24. It clearly shows that
Matthew 24:4-15 is a description of signs that show the
TiIme of the Gentiles (Gentile Age, AGe of Grace, Church Age, whatever
one calles it, mostly NOW) is continuing. All the signs of
Matthew 24:4-15 have been, are now, and will continue to be until
the 'endtimes' shows up. We are nearer the signless pretribualtion
rapture of the Gentile Age born-again, mostly gentile, elect saints Church
now then then because THIS IS THE LATEST IT HAS EVER BEEN.
I have a writing (12 years old anyway) about five different
TRIBULTATIONS and what they mean. MOstly your statement implies
that you don't realise the difference between 't'ribulation, a wreched
human condition and "T"ribulation Period, a period of time.
Surely most everybody can see the difference btween a time and
a condion?
Again, the writing takes the five questions: WHO?, WHAT?, WHY?
HOW? WHEN? and answers each of them. As usual, these answers are
NOT all this clear in the Bible so some combining of scriputres has
been done. And as you can see, I know enough about what is going to
happen (Biblicly speaking) that I can write out of my head without
a lot of note consulting. THis is NOT the only long post I'm writing
today. In fact, if I were parinoid, I'd think the Lead Devil was
after me, there being so many BB eschalogical threads open both
in the Other Religions, Theology and General Baptist Forums
(not to mention some that might well be hiding from me).
Thank you Brother UUall for your full frontal attack against
the pretribulation rapture/resurrection of the saints/elect.
It tells a lot more about the anti-pretrib position then about
the pretrib position. In fact, it seems strange that in a topic
about any eschatological topic i've ever seen in BB (Baptist Board)
bb (bulletin board) that it always turns into a pretrib v. anti-pretrib.
We have gone years at a time without any position othe then
the pretrib rapture being explained. Who will 'win' a debate like that?
People notice that it is the Truth that gets attacked frequently
when folks GANG UP.
Well, anyway, we have lots of answers from
(again, we cannot go through all the prophetic scriptures
to explain each answer and minister to our wifes and family.)
UUall //1- The LAST TRUMPET isnt really the LAST TRUMPET even
though the scriptures say it is.
This is really an inditment of the anti-pretrib's poor skill in debating.
Many fools equate the 'last trumpet' of 2 Corinthians 15:50-something
with the 7th Trumpet of Revelation. Revelation never calls the
7th Trumpet THE LAST TRUMPET. So this is an assumption (AKA: guess)
if if logically leads to dead ends or contradictions with the rest
of the Bible it should be abandoned as A BAD ASSUMPTION/GUESS.
In fact, what is being spoken of in 2 Cor 15:50+whatever is
THE LAST TRUMPET OF THE GENTILE AGE.
BTW, Talking to some Jewish friends who celebrate the actual
FEAST OF TRUMPETS in their Synagogue each year - three trumpets
are sounded:
1. the First Trumpet
2. the Last Trumpet
3. the Ggreat Ttrumpet
AIn't that a hoot
the last trumpet is the Great Trumpet
the last trumpet is not the Last Trumpet.
UUall //2-The DAY OF THE LORD is part of the tribulation period even though
the scriptures say its not.
Strange, my search engine fails to find "the DAY OF THE LORD
is NOT part of the Tribulation Period".
Also, I teach three different DAY OF THE LORDs as found in the scriputre.
Reminds me of a joke:
I have three coins that add up to 55-cents and one of them is not a quarter.
What are the three coints. Answer - a quarter, another quarter,
the one coin not a quarter is a nickle.
Yes, two of the DAY OF THE LORDs are NOT the Tribulation Period, but
the one one is.
UUall //3- You must invent many resurrections in order for the rapture to occur.
I 'invenet'ed many resurrections i read about in the Scripture.
My list of 5 resurrecitons clearly delineates the DIFFERNCES from
the scriptures between the five resurrections that I visit.
Strange that the anti-pretribs are too lazy to go into the whole
document phrase by phrase showing it wrong - maybe they are smarter
than I give them credit for being?
UUall //4- "Death is swallowed up in victory" more than once, although
the scriptures say otherwise
But on the other hand, pretribs don't LIMIT God's resurrective power
like some anti-pretribs do. Say, isn't their a stigma to being
UUall //5- You must believe God cannot protect his people here on earth
although you will find many scriptures that say HE WILL.
Chapter 12 of Revelation shows how God will personally protect the
Jewish/Israeli citizens of Judah in the last half of the Tribulation Period
(great Tribulation Period. Yet saved mostly gentile Christian elect
church saints are not mentioned ON THE EARTH in Revelation after
Revelatin 4:1 until the glorious return of Jesus in Chapter 19.
UUall //6- The "four winds" must blow more than once
I live in Oklahoma, The for winds blow most every day.
Remember our state song says
WHen the wind comes
sweeping down the PLANES.
UUall //7- You must believe that you will find nothing of the rapture
spoken by the prophets in the old testament.
I was a pre-trib for 40 years people telling me "If the pretribualtion
rapture is what God is going to do, why didn't he tell John (as in
the book of Revelation) ? Then I found the pretribualtion rapture
in Revelation 4:1 BY TYPE (people who don't know what BY TYPE means
in a sentence like this can be considered wise by keeping their fingers off
the keyboard).
I was a pre-trib for 50 years people telling me "If the pretribualtion
rapture is what God is going to do, why didn't Jesus say anything about it?
I found it in Matthew 24:31 (and a parallel verse in Mark 13)
and in Luke 21:36. Well, more the Holy Spirit showed me by of all
things a preacher who LISTENED to his English professors (he was
an English Major in his bachelor's degree before Seminary).
Strange how understanding a LITERARY DEVICE helps one understand
prophecy: find out about the POLYSENDETON 'and' in English and
the Polysendeton 'Kai" in Greek.
But on BB there is a noisy
