Christ raising the dead then those who are alive is the rapture
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Premillennium, Amillennium, Postmillennium
- Thread starter Mikey
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Christ raising the dead then those who are alive is the rapture
Thanks for this info. My current pastor graduated in 1975, and my pastor prior to the above-noted move was class of 1970, so even as the Bob, Jr.-JRR disagreement was taking place, revival-seeking preachers were coming out of BJU. God is good!
Also I do think it entirely possible for the Church to be extraordinarily disciplined/chastised
In my reading of scripture, chastisement is not wrath, ever. The first is done in love (Heb. 12), the second in anger. I've chastised my kids, and I've been wrathful toward them. The first was biblical, the second was sin that I needed to confess to God. (Of course, God cannot sin, so His wrath is righteous.)
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Amen!
What Scripture is there to say the "church" will be corporately chastised? The verses on chastisement I know of (Heb. 12, etc.) refer to individuals.
I think he means here that while we would not be suffering at hands of God, we will be suffering at hands of man!
Judgment starts first in the house of the Lord, maybe?
Premillennium, Amillennium, Postmillennium
How does each (Pre, A, Post) accommodate the following prophecy?
Rev 19:6 KJV - And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Rev 19:7 KJV - Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 KJV - And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev 19:9 KJV - And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
How does each (Pre, A, Post) accommodate the following prophecy?
Rev 19:6 KJV - And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Rev 19:7 KJV - Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 KJV - And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev 19:9 KJV - And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
I can see us experiencing the wrath of lost sinners under Antichrist, but be spared the wrath of God as in his bowl judgments and other plagues in end days!
Two quick points. (1) He would have to prove that "the house of the Lord" is the church. (2) Krima there can be translated as "discernment" instead of "judgment."
1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
This is not a Biblical argument.John of Japan said:
John 16:33. 'In this world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.'
2 Timothy 3:12. 'Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.'
These two verses do not specifically mention the Church, but those who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will usually be in a church. And then there is.
Revelation 3:19. 'As many as I love I rebuke and chasten.' Written to a church.
I beg your pardon? So the church is not the bride and body of Christ (two important metaphors)?
Sorry, I really don't see how any of these passages disprove my position. None of them is talking about a Tribulation Period. In John 16:33 it is not saying that Christ will send the tribulation. Same thing in 2 Tim. 3:12. And in Rev. 3:19, chastening is not a synonym for tribulation.
Okay, good point.
I was observing that because you would not put your bride through something is not any indication that God will not do so for His own high purposes.
God could still be protecting us thru thru the great tribulation itself... or we can be spared rom His wrath being poured out, but still suffer wrath of sinners...
Doesn't the actual time of God's wrath start mid trib, so could be a mid trip rapture, as could go up with resurrected 2 witnesses?
God's wrath is poured out right now (Romans 1:18).
God also though will be pouring out wrath in a unique way at end of this present age...
What purpose might there be for Christ to put His church through the tribulation? And do you have Scripture for that stated purpose?
Yes, but there are plenty of bad things going on before the midpoint. To me that is the main problem with the pre-wrath/mid-trib position.
But to me that destroys the meaning of the bride metaphor. We get our beliefs about marriage from God, and the bridegroom metaphor is very prominent in the premier passage about how a man should treat his bride: "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it" (Eph. 5:25).
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