Featured Preparing a truthful Calvinist sermon

The world in 2 Cor 5:19 has no sin charged to it, no penalty of sin, it is a Justified world from all sin. It's reconciled to God and shall be saved by Christ life Rom 5:10 !

 

You propose a "close your eyes to the Bible" solution of the form

So then God "Came to His OWN and His own were of course saved and already forgiven - and receive Him". that "pleases Him"

God "did not lament or ask what MORE could I have done" - that lament would not please Him.

God "So loved the World and so He so saved the World, the the whole world Pleases God - end of story". That pleases Him.

==============================================

Instead of those fictions we find --


Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRyan


[FONT=&quot]“He CAME to HIS OWN and [/FONT][FONT=&quot]His OWN received Him not[/FONT][FONT=&quot]” John 1[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Matt 23[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]38“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke 7[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]28 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they acknowledged God’s justice, having been baptized with the baptism of John. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]29 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Is 5:4[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Response: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Well the Calvinist would have an answer for God's question on that one. An answer contrived via “extreme inference” in places like Deut 5:29. Calvinism would inform the world – and God Himself of just what God did to cause the lamentable result that God is complaining about in t[FONT=&quot]he verse above[/FONT].

[FONT=&quot]I[FONT=&quot]n Calvinism i[/FONT][/FONT]f the result is wrong if it is to be lamented if the question [FONT=&quot]is to be asked "What more could have been done" w[FONT=&quot]ell [/FONT][/FONT]then Calvinism argues He [FONT=&quot]knows exactly what He failed to do [/FONT] - [FONT=&quot]in effect [/FONT] sabotaging His own plans - the cause of His own "lament" - or at the very least - being forgetful to "do the necessary" as the saying goes in India.

[FONT=&quot]================================

[FONT=&quot]God's "lament" does not ask "what more could the LOST have done that they have not done" because He knows[FONT=&quot] exactly wh[FONT=&quot]at THEY could h[FONT=&quot]av[FONT=&quot]e [FONT=&quot]done.

[FONT=&quot]Rather [FONT=&quot]G[FONT=&quot]od asks[FONT=&quot] 'What MOR[FONT=&quot]E could I HAVE done that I did not do?" -- the very ques[FONT=&quot]tion [FONT=&quot]all Calvinists claim to have the answer for.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

=======================

 

The World of 2 Cor 5:19 it's a Saved World, God does not charge it with any sins, so it's a made righteous World ! But many shall be punished for their sins Eph 5:6 ! They are not part of the World of 2 Cor 5:19 !

 

"Children who practice self-indulgence (masturbation) previous to puberty, or the period of merging into manhood or womanhood, must pay the penalty of nature's violated laws at that critical period. Many sink into an early grave, while others have sufficient force of constitution to pass this ordeal. If the practice is continued from the age of fifteen and upward, nature will protest against the abuse she has suffered, and continues to suffer, and will make them pay the penalty for the transgression of her laws, especially from the ages of thirty to forty-five, by numerous pains in the system, and various diseases, such as affection of the liver and lungs, neuralgia, rheumatism, affection of the spine, diseased kidneys, and cancerous humors. Some of nature's fine machinery gives way, leaving a heavier task for the remaining to perform, which disorders nature's fine arrangement, and there is often a sudden breaking down of the constitution; and death is the result." (Solemn Appeal, 1870, p.63).

"They do not realize the exceeding sinfulness of this degrading sin, which is enervating the system and destroying their brain nerve power." (Testimonies, Vol. 2, p.347).

"He had practiced self-abuse until he was a mere wreck of humanity. This vice was shown me as an abomination in the sight of God. The results of self-abuse in them is seen in various diseases, such as catarrh, dropsy, headache, loss of memory and sight, great weakness in the back and loins, affections of the spine, the head often decays inwardly. Cancerous humor, which would lay dormant in the system their life-time, is inflamed, and commences its eating, destructive work. The mind is often utterly ruined, and insanity takes place." (Appeal to Mothers, 1864, pp.25, 27).

 

A reminder from your prophetess...
"Children who practice self-indulgence (masturbation) previous to puberty, or the period of merging into manhood or womanhood, must pay the penalty of nature's violated laws at that critical period. Many sink into an early grave, while others have sufficient force of constitution to pass this ordeal. If the practice is continued from the age of fifteen and upward, nature will protest against the abuse she has suffered, and continues to suffer, and will make them pay the penalty for the transgression of her laws, especially from the ages of thirty to forty-five, by numerous pains in the system, and various diseases, such as affection of the liver and lungs, neuralgia, rheumatism, affection of the spine, diseased kidneys, and cancerous humors. Some of nature's fine machinery gives way, leaving a heavier task for the remaining to perform, which disorders nature's fine arrangement, and there is often a sudden breaking down of the constitution; and death is the result." (Solemn Appeal, 1870, p.63).

"They do not realize the exceeding sinfulness of this degrading sin, which is enervating the system and destroying their brain nerve power." (Testimonies, Vol. 2, p.347).

"He had practiced self-abuse until he was a mere wreck of humanity. This vice was shown me as an abomination in the sight of God. The results of self-abuse in them is seen in various diseases, such as catarrh, dropsy, headache, loss of memory and sight, great weakness in the back and loins, affections of the spine, the head often decays inwardly. Cancerous humor, which would lay dormant in the system their life-time, is inflamed, and commences its eating, destructive work. The mind is often utterly ruined, and insanity takes place." (Appeal to Mothers, 1864, pp.25, 27).

 

No Steaver,

If Bob can cut and paste his own quote which has been refuted over and over, then I believe it is fitting to quote his mentor and spiritual leader over and over again as she feared her followers would have memory loss.....

Steaver, would you like to pay me 20$ everytime Bob quotes his post over and over.....you seem to have no trouble with him doing that, why is that Steaver????

here is another;
13."Cheese should never be introduced into the stomach'' (Testimonies to the Church, Vol. 2, page 68).
14."It is just as much sin to violate the laws of our being as to break one of the Ten Commandments'' ([eating a slice of bacon is as sinful as committing adultery] Testimonies to the Church, Vol. 2, page 70).

 

"In closing let me congratulate those here who God has caused to believe the Gospel/TULIP. God loves you very much and has forgiven all your sin through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. And for those here tonight who do not believe, you deserve the eternal hell God is going to send you to because you refuse to believe and God hates you. I offer no condolences, for what God hates I must hate, and whom God hates I must hate also, for I am called to be holy as my Father in heaven is holy."

That is about all you can say, or the Cal can say abt their belief.

 

The key word is 'formed' and not 'created'. God forms that which we create via intercourse.

Again, the key word is 'formed' and not 'created'....

I will give you a passage to chew on.....


"For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage."(Heb. 2:11-15)

I see a passage where it shows Christ and His sheep as one. As it states in Col. 3:3, "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God." God now sees us through His Son, Jesus Christ. We live only because He lives(John 14:19). For the One who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are one, that shows me a definite atonement for a definite people, His sheep.

Then pay close attention to those key words 'deliver them who through fear of death'. Not everyone fears death, eternal death, thinking there's no way a loving God would cast them into hell. Here's a passage to support this thought...


"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes."(Rom. 3:10-18)



Then here's another passage to chew on.....


"Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."(Heb. 10:7-14)


Now, it shows here that Jesus' death sanctified sinners. If He did taste death for everyone without exception, then you have a bunch, a myriad of sanctified people being cast into hell daily. That's why His death had a definite people in mind, imo....



Brother Tony, you can read all through Hebrews about how Jesus became the High Priest, the Mediator betwixt man and God. Look at how Aaron performed that duty. He sacrificed for Israel only. He wasn't the mediator for the Hittites, Philistines, Jebusites, Perizzites, Edomites, et al, but Israel only. Israel was a type, a picture of the church. Aaron performed his priestly duties for Israel only...in the same fashion as Christ did, and does, the church....

 

That doesn't disprove my statement that God didn't create us. God made Adam from the dust, and Eve from Adam's rib. Were you created from the dust, rib, or via intercourse?

 

God made Adam from the dust and Eve from his rib. We are formed via intercourse, sperm and egg....anatomy 101...

 

Until you toss out "extreme inference" and read the Bible regarding the "sequence" that results in salvation.

[FONT=&quot]Here is yet another teaching of Christ to be avoided by those who reject the fact that evidence and the drawing of God leads men to salvation

John 12
32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” 33 But He was saying this to indicate the kind of death by which He was to die. 34 The crowd then answered Him, “We have heard out of the Law that the Christ is to remain forever; and how can You say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this Son of Man?” 35 So Jesus said to them, “For a little while longer the Light is among you. Walk while you have the Light, so that darkness will not overtake you; he who walks in the darkness does not know where he goes. 36While you have the Light, believe in the Light, so that you may become sons of Light.”

John 20
27 Then He *said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.” 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus *said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.” 30 Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

==================== note

BOTH Calvinists and Arminians agree that the lost do not "please God" but where we differ is that Arminians believe the "Lost are part of the WORLD" and that "God so LOVED the (lost) World that HE Gave... yes really -- that WHOSOEVER believes on Him might not perish but have everlasting life... yes really" John 3:16

Paul says the gospel is going to the unsaved in Romans 11 " 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them."

The God of the Bible "came to seek and save the lost". Luke 19:10, Matt 18:11


The very sequence Calvinism objects to is found there - "light shining out of darkness" and those who are lost being converted in the very sequence identified by Paul - the same author -- writing to the Romans.

Romans 10 “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

The very sequence Calvinism forbids - the Bible affirms! The gospel goes to the lost - those who are not saved, and not at all righteous -- and then -
"with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

Without all the "extreme inference" injected into 2Cor 4 - this all works just fine.

Calvinism "dies a thousand deaths" in the pages of scripture.[/FONT]

 

Just not in real life.

In fact only SavedByMercy has tried to solve this problem for Calvinists - #58 and her solution was "toss out the Bible texts" that are so offensive to Calvinism - simply don't read them!! #24

in Christ,

Bob

 

You propose a "close your eyes to the Bible" solution of the form

So then God "Came to His OWN and His own were of course saved and already forgiven - and receive Him". that "pleases Him"

God "did not lament or ask what MORE could I have done" - that lament would not please Him.

God "So loved the World and so He so saved the World, the the whole world Pleases God - end of story". That pleases Him.

==============================================

Instead of those fictions we find --


Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRyan


[FONT=&quot]“He CAME to HIS OWN and [/FONT][FONT=&quot]His OWN received Him not[/FONT][FONT=&quot]” John 1[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Matt 23[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]38“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke 7[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]28 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they acknowledged God’s justice, having been baptized with the baptism of John. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]29 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Is 5:4[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Response: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Well the Calvinist would have an answer for God's question on that one. An answer contrived via “extreme inference” in places like Deut 5:29. Calvinism would inform the world – and God Himself of just what God did to cause the lamentable result that God is complaining about in t[FONT=&quot]he verse above[/FONT].

[FONT=&quot]I[FONT=&quot]n Calvinism i[/FONT][/FONT]f the result is wrong if it is to be lamented if the question [FONT=&quot]is to be asked "What more could have been done" w[FONT=&quot]ell [/FONT][/FONT]then Calvinism argues He [FONT=&quot]knows exactly what He failed to do [/FONT] - [FONT=&quot]in effect [/FONT] sabotaging His own plans - the cause of His own "lament" - or at the very least - being forgetful to "do the necessary" as the saying goes in India.

[FONT=&quot]================================

[FONT=&quot]God's "lament" does not ask "what more could the LOST have done that they have not done" because He knows[FONT=&quot] exactly wh[FONT=&quot]at THEY could h[FONT=&quot]av[FONT=&quot]e [FONT=&quot]done.

[FONT=&quot]Rather [FONT=&quot]G[FONT=&quot]od asks[FONT=&quot] 'What MOR[FONT=&quot]E could I HAVE done that I did not do?" -- the very ques[FONT=&quot]tion [FONT=&quot]all Calvinists claim to have the answer for.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

=======================

When Calvinists "need" to avoid the Bible - to put the Bible on "ignore" they can be "soooo creative"!!

in Christ,

Bob

 

I have opened the perfect thread #1 on Jan 13, 2015-- over on the other denominations section for those who feel it necessary to attack the Seventh-day Adventist denomination.

Not sure why we have to keep seeing these off-topic posts here -- though I understand why Icon prefers this to actually dealing with the C-v-A points and Bible texts raised in some cases.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Belief in TULIP/Calvinism does not make you one of God's elect. In fact your statement

is contrary to TULIP which you say you have debated. You make election conditional on your belief in TULIP/Calvinism but election is unconditional, the U in TULIP!

Someone else may have already pointed this out. If so my apologies to them!