Present your BEST argument for church tithing

the Bible requires it

 

Preacher's Boy,

Does in the New Testament saying tithing is required? If so, please prove us a verse in the New Testament saying so.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

Read "The Treasure Principle" by Randy Alcorn
Randy uses the following "Treasure Principle Keys" to emphasize the concept of "joyful giving":
1. God owns everything. I'm His money manager.
2. My heart always goes where I put God's money.
3. Heaven, not earth, is my home.
4. Giving is the only antidote to materialism.
5. God prospers me not to raise my standard of living, but to raise my standard of giving.

All of these concepts are supported biblically. In fact, there are 2,350 bible verses dealing with money and possessios. Hope this helps. Peace in Christ. Bicycle.

 

Are you saying proportionate giving was never for the church? If it was, what do you think a beginning proportion would have been?

Cheers, Bluefalcon

 

tithing is not part of the new covenant. malichi is a condemnation of the levitical priest hood. but if you say we are to tithe, then we should keep the "whole" tithe law.
Lev 27:28 Notwithstanding no devoted thing, that a man shall devote unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast, and of the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy unto the LORD.
Lev 27:29 None devoted, which shall be devoted of men, shall be redeemed; but shall surely be put to death.
Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.
Lev 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
Lev 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
Lev 27:33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

notice it says the last tenth not the first.

Deu 12:6 And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:
Deu 12:7 And there ye shall eat before the LORD your God, and ye shall rejoice in all that ye put your hand unto, ye and your households, wherein the LORD thy God hath blessed thee.
Deu 12:8 Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.
Deu 12:9 For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance, which the LORD your God giveth you.
Deu 12:10 But when ye go over Jordan, and dwell in the land which the LORD your God giveth you to inherit, and when he giveth you rest from all your enemies round about, so that ye dwell in safety;
Deu 12:11 Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD:
Deu 12:12 And ye shall rejoice before the LORD your God, ye, and your sons, and your daughters, and your menservants, and your maidservants, and the Levite that is within your gates; forasmuch as he hath no part nor inheritance with you.
Deu 12:13 Take heed to thyself that thou offer not thy burnt offerings in every place that thou seest:
Deu 12:14 But in the place which the LORD shall choose in one of thy tribes, there thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, and there thou shalt do all that I command thee.
Deu 12:15 Notwithstanding thou mayest kill and eat flesh in all thy gates, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee: the unclean and the clean may eat thereof, as of the roebuck, and as of the hart.
Deu 12:16 Only ye shall not eat the blood; ye shall pour it upon the earth as water.
Deu 12:17 Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:
Deu 12:18 But thou must eat them before the LORD thy God in the place which the LORD thy God shall choose, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite that is within thy gates: and thou shalt rejoice before the LORD thy God in all that thou puttest thine hands unto.

this passage is plainly referring to the temple. therefore we can only give the tithes to the temple

Deu 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
Deu 14:23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
Deu 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deu 14:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

of course those who think all drinking is wrong have a tought time explaining the strong drink in this passage(and i checked historically strong drink is hard liquor of some sort), but none the less it clearly does not show paying tithes just to the temple some tithes were for celebration.

thank you and God bless

 

I was in a church once where the subject of tithing came up and 10% was mentioned, one person stood up and said "well I give 20%". That was totally out of line.
We only need to go to: Mark 12:43- 44, And calling His disciples to Him, He said to them, Truly I say to you, this poor widow put in more than all the contributors to the treasury;

44, for they all put in out of their surplus, but she, out of her poverty, put in all she owned, and all she had to live on.

 

And the passage in Mark demonstrates just the opposite you would have it demonstrate: God doesn't have one's heart until he has one storing up his treasures in heaven and not on earth. In the passage in Mark, what the lady gave was in direct proportion to the level of esteem bestowed upon her from the Son of God himself. It all has to do with percentages, not with amounts of money. And why God made a tenth off the top so important and holy throughout most of biblical history should give us pause to wonder why he chose that number.

1 Cor. 16:2 (ISV): "On the first day of the week, each of you should set aside and save some of your money in proportion to what you have . . . ."

I'll say again that the only way to give in proportion to what one has is to give a percentage. It's just as hard for a millionaire to give $100,000 as it is for a hundredaire to give $10. Now if we were to choose any number out of 100 for a percentage, I guarantee you that a tenth has the most biblical support.

Cheers, Bluefalcon

[ July 11, 2005, 04:18 AM: Message edited by: Bluefalcon ]

 

Quoted from Yeshua4Me2:

"tithing is not part of the new covenant. malichi is a condemnation of the levitical priest hood. but if you say we are to tithe, then we should keep the "whole" tithe law.
Lev 27:28 Notwithstanding no devoted thing, that a man shall devote unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast, and of the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy unto the LORD.
Lev 27:29 None devoted, which shall be devoted of men, shall be redeemed; but shall surely be put to death.
Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.
Lev 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
Lev 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
Lev 27:33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

notice it says the last tenth not the first.

Deu 12:6 And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:
Deu 12:7 And there ye shall eat before the LORD your God, and ye shall rejoice in all that ye put your hand unto, ye and your households, wherein the LORD thy God hath blessed thee.
Deu 12:8 Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.
Deu 12:9 For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance, which the LORD your God giveth you.
Deu 12:10 But when ye go over Jordan, and dwell in the land which the LORD your God giveth you to inherit, and when he giveth you rest from all your enemies round about, so that ye dwell in safety;
Deu 12:11 Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD:
Deu 12:12 And ye shall rejoice before the LORD your God, ye, and your sons, and your daughters, and your menservants, and your maidservants, and the Levite that is within your gates; forasmuch as he hath no part nor inheritance with you.
Deu 12:13 Take heed to thyself that thou offer not thy burnt offerings in every place that thou seest:
Deu 12:14 But in the place which the LORD shall choose in one of thy tribes, there thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, and there thou shalt do all that I command thee.
Deu 12:15 Notwithstanding thou mayest kill and eat flesh in all thy gates, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee: the unclean and the clean may eat thereof, as of the roebuck, and as of the hart.
Deu 12:16 Only ye shall not eat the blood; ye shall pour it upon the earth as water.
Deu 12:17 Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:
Deu 12:18 But thou must eat them before the LORD thy God in the place which the LORD thy God shall choose, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite that is within thy gates: and thou shalt rejoice before the LORD thy God in all that thou puttest thine hands unto.

this passage is plainly referring to the temple. therefore we can only give the tithes to the temple

Deu 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
Deu 14:23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
Deu 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deu 14:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

of course those who think all drinking is wrong have a tought time explaining the strong drink in this passage(and I checked historically strong drink is hard liquor of some sort), but none the less it clearly does not show paying tithes just to the temple some tithes were for celebration.

thank you and God bless"

Somehow it seems that everytime a discussion on tithing comes up and somebody ACTUALLY quotes what the OLD TESTAMENT actually says about what tithing ACTUALLY IS and HOW IT WAS ACTUALLY DONE...all the tithing PROPONENTS seem to sidestep the issue....or go silent altogether.For the record...I've NEVER heard of a New Testament church that EVER taught tithing like the BIBLE actually teaches it.....!I guess that's cause they CAN'T....since the local church ISN'T a biblical STOREHOUSE and biblical tithes were NEVER supposed to be CASH,CHECKS,or MONEYORDERS! That'll make most baptist preachers run for cover(and maybe even lose their lunch).Ya'll have a nice day!

Greg Sr.

By the way...GIVE LIBERALLY...God owns it all and we should be good STEWARDS of what He provides us...besides...it'll do your heart GOOD!

 

Where does it say that?

Very nice except the temple wasn't even around for another few hundred years.

Yeah, and when a child curses his parents we should take him out and stone him to death, right? No! Because we're teaching principles, not laws, from the O.T. The principle of giving to God the "firstfruits" is as old as humanity itself (cf. Gen. 4, etc.). And the principle is fleshed out throughout the rest of the Bible. Paul demonstrates the principle without using the word "tithe" by saying everyone should give in proportion to what he has every Sunday (cf. 1 Cor. 16:2). Jesus himself is also on record as a proponent of tithing (cf. Lk 11:42).

And to this of course I say, Amen!

Cheers, Bluefalcon

 

A passage in the New Testament appeard in my mind about the money issue.

When Jesus came to the town, there was crowd came to see Christ. A short tax collector named Zacchaeus came to see Jesus, but he was not able to see him, because of crowd around Christ. So, he climbed up on tree to see Christ. Then, suddenly Christ saw him on the tree, and He called his name, without being introduced of his name. Obivously, Christ is an omniscience- know everything. CHrist told him, to come down, and will show him seomthing. Zacchus invited Christ to his house. Christ taught him about money, doing the right thing. He realized he was wrong doing to people. So, he gave money back to them.

Notice. Christ never telling him about tithing nothing. So, therefore, tithing is not a commandment find anywhere in the New Testament.

Christ taught him a lesson, that he should treat to people nicely and show love.

Many people hated tax collectors during Christ's time.

Zacchus realized that he was wrong doing with people for stealing money from them. So, he gaving money back to them.

So, there is no evidence find anywhere in the New Testament mentioned that tithing is a commandment.

Paul taught us that we should be a cheerful giver without being complaint. Giving with all your heart and faith in God.

The story of Zacchaeus found in Luke 19:1-10.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20-Amen!

 

There's not one verse that says we shouldn't tithe. There are many verses that indicate giving a tithe pleases God, and that withholding it displeases God. Those who hate the principle of tithing have nothing in the Bible that says tithing is a useless or needless principle for God's people of all ages to follow.

Cheers, Bluefalcon

 

My only problem with tithing is saying there is a law of tithing (i prefer to call it a principle). tithing is preached out of context. I am NOT saying not to tithe, mine is really a problem with semantics. locally where i live i have heard pastors preach that one is not saved unles they tithe (of course these are WOF preachers). my own preacher even misquotes mal to do this. i simply do not think pastors should LIE to get the Tithe money.

oh and bluefalcon try Lev 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD. the tenth, unless the tenth means the first tenth to you, but to the Jew it meant the last tenth that passed under the rod.

 

matt: 23:23