Presidential Fearmongering

[Dragoon68]

Why does it matter how we got here? The fact is we are here and need to do something to get from here. He doesn't have to spread panic, the people who are losing their homes and have nothing to eat are panicking without him saying one word. He is simply reminding the GOP what time of day it is.

You left out the fact that Bush cut taxes to death yet we are where we are. If tax cuts were the solution we wouldn't be here...

It matters a lot "how we got here" when we're going right back to the same source for a solution. The same source that has helped to cause the problem if not outright caused it. When you step back and really look at the problem you'll see that there is no fundamental reason for the economy to be shrinking because other than by the actions of government. People did just up and decide to cut back on there demand for goods and services. There's no shortage of good ideas, needs, resources, etc. It's just the funny business of government and the spreading of panic to attain political goals.

Words like "... have nothing to eat ..." are exactly the kind of panic the Obamanites want to spread. This isn't the case at all! There has been unemployment and there will be unemployment in the work force for all time. We already have means to help people in that situation through the state's unemployment insurance programs and there are welfare programs in place to help this in dire need.

Cutting taxes is exactly what we need to do. It will put more money back into the hands of people who can and will actually do something to grow the economy by creating jobs. All the jobs that are worth anything have been created exactly by that means. It's the only kind of employment that will help - not the make work projects of government that are funded by other people doing real work.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Cutting taxes won't do it all. Many state's unemployment funds are running out of money. Let's cut taxes even further to make the problem worse. You can't tax cut your way out of this.

Also, why do people with full bellies can't believe there are people hungry in America. Ostrich-like behavior doesn't fix the problem.

 

[Enoch]

The more that is disclosed about what is in the piece of trash "stimulus" bill that stimulates nothing, the more the general public is starting to protest.

His real message is to hurry up before they figure out what is really in it.

Exactly.

I'm appalled and angry that people are trying to push this on the American people! God help us!!!!!!!!

 

[Revmitchell]

Cutting taxes won't do it all. Many state's unemployment funds are running out of money. Let's cut taxes even further to make the problem worse. You can't tax cut your way out of this.

Also, why do people with full bellies can't believe there are people hungry in America. Ostrich-like behavior doesn't fix the problem.

Maybe you forget what "cutting taxes" actually means but it is letting people keep their own money. Collecting it and then giving it back to them is what?

 

[targus]

Cutting taxes won't do it all. Many state's unemployment funds are running out of money. Let's cut taxes even further to make the problem worse. You can't tax cut your way out of this.

Also, why do people with full bellies can't believe there are people hungry in America. Ostrich-like behavior doesn't fix the problem.

What do these expenditures in the "stimulus" package have to do with state unemployment funds or hungry people?

• $2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.

• A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

• $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.

• $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).

• $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.

• $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.

• $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.

• $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.

• $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.

• $125 million for the Washington sewer system.

• $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.

• $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.

• $75 million for "smoking cessation activities."

• $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.

• $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.

• $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.

• $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.

• $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.

• $6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.

• $500 million for state and local fire stations.

• $650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.

• $1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.

• $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.

• $412 million for CDC buildings and property.

• $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.

• $160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.

• $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.

• $850 million for Amtrak.

• $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.

• $75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.

• $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.

• $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/02/gop.stimulus.worries/

 

[LeBuick]

If you truly believe this, then there is no hope that you will EVER grasp the reality of the socialism that you so actively pursue - knowingly or un-knowingly.

Considering your blind and unequivocal persistence to lay all ill on Bush, and all good on the big "O" I'm not sure you are aware of what you truly believe other than what the D party tells you to believe.

Pity, pity!!

I don't lay all the ill's on Bush, the point in my statement was to say there are so many variables that got us to where we are, the blame game doesn't make sense. Let History sort out the blame. I blame CEO's and top exec's for greed. I blame the sub prime loans. I blame unions for not being reasonable. The list really goes on...

Today, here is where we are and the ship is sinking fast. We can stand here and keep seeking reasons for being in this situation or someone can grab a bucket and start bailing. The GOP says we need a bucket called tax cuts. The Dems say we need a bucket called spending. We the moderates are hoping both parties would realize the urgency or our situation, stick their bucket in the water and start throwing some off the boat.

As far as Bush, what I blame him for is being at the wheel when the ship began taking on water and waiting too long to sound the alarm. The sub prime market didn't sneak up on us. Corporate greed didn't sneak up on us. Alarming unemployment numbers didn't start a few months ago. This boats been taking on water so long that Obama may be right, it may be too late to bail water and we may end up abandoning the ship...

I do know what we need is somebody with a bucket to start baling because the time for discussion and debate was over a year ago when Bush should have sounded the alarm.

 

[LeBuick]

It matters a lot "how we got here" when we're going right back to the same source for a solution. .

The facts are there are many, many reason's how we got here. I know you feel you have the answer but the truth is there is no one answer. The proposed solution can't be the same source since we haven't been investing in infrastructure since Reagan was in office. You guys have made spending a dirty word, wasteful spending is bad but proper investments in the right areas is never bad.

Words like "... have nothing to eat ..." are exactly the kind of panic the Obamanites want to spread.

Having nothing to eat is a reality. Anyone who calls it a panic obviously has something to eat. My Church feeds the homeless and needy and we are seeing record numbers of people showing up and more and more coming each day. I wished I could bring you down and let you look in some of the faces and shake some of the hands of where this "panic" becomes reality.

Cutting taxes is exactly what we need to do. It will put more money back into the hands of people who can and will actually do something to grow the economy by creating jobs. All the jobs that are worth anything have been created exactly by that means. It's the only kind of employment that will help - not the make work projects of government that are funded by other people doing real work.

You don't get it, putting money in the hands of the CEO will only increase the size of his or her bonus and the luxuries he gets in his bathroom. Pay attention man, we gave them TARP loans and they spent that on Vegas retreats and large bonuses. What makes you think giving them one cent via a tax cut would create a job? How naive? We gave them Billions via TARP and didn't get one stinking job... What we got, 600K more jobs lost in January.

The tax cuts need to be in the hands of the middle class. They are who need and will spend the money. The jobs will come when the demand begins to rise. You guys really need a new economics book because the one you have may be sound market philosophy but it didn't take human factor into account. It didn't expect the CEO to send all the jobs overseas then split all the profits in the form of perks and bonuses.

 

[LeBuick]

Cutting taxes won't do it all. Many state's unemployment funds are running out of money. Let's cut taxes even further to make the problem worse. You can't tax cut your way out of this.

Also, why do people with full bellies can't believe there are people hungry in America. Ostrich-like behavior doesn't fix the problem.

AMEN Brother... :thumbsup:

 

[LeBuick]

Maybe you forget what "cutting taxes" actually means but it is letting people keep their own money. Collecting it and then giving it back to them is what?

Cutting working middle class taxes I am all in favor of and can see how it will instantly help this situation. That is why I was glad to see Obama make one third of his plan working class tax cuts. However, cutting corporate taxes are the ones being objected. We have done this over and over and over and they get richer and richer and richer and jobs get cut and cut and cut...

I can eve justify cutting small business owners taxes because that just might create a job or two. The problem with the plan the GOP in Congress proposed, it was about 85% corporate tax cuts and the remaining 15% for the working class and small businesses. That might work of the execs wouldn't pocket the money but I think we've been fooled enough hoping they'll do what's right. Remember TARP?

And don't forget, Bush cut taxes and we are still where we are... It can't be the total fix or we wouldn't be here.

 

[Revmitchell]

And don't forget, Bush cut taxes and we are still where we are... It can't be the total fix or we wouldn't be here.

Every time you say this you show your intentional ignorance of the truth. He spent way more than he cut. And we are here because of democratic regs and the refusal to acknowledge there was a problem when repubs held hearing on the housing problem.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally Posted by JustChristian
I believe that the danger of a depression caused by GW Bush's policies is real.

For years 80 democrats have beat the Republicans over the head about Hoover times. Now at last it has been shown that the same policies that O'bama is pursuing were used by Roosevelt and prolonged the depression until Roosevelt maneuvered us into WWII. So perhaps O'bama is correct to warn of an eternal recession in this country. I have wondered aloud [well actually in print] on this forum if O'bama was an instrument of judgment on this country for its decadence. You know: slaughtering 50 million unborn babies, making homosexuality an acceptable life style, etc.

 

[dragonfly]

Since it was under a republican administration that we ended up in this mess, why should we continue to listen to republican answers that obviously don't work?

I am hopeful that this stimulus bill will be passed and that we will finally start digging our way out of this republican led recession.

 

[OldRegular]

Since it was under a republican administration that we ended up in this mess, why should we continue to listen to republican answers that obviously don't work?

I am hopeful that this stimulus bill will be passed and that we will finally start digging our way out of this republican led recession.

It was a democrat Congress [Just like under Hoover.]. That Congress led by Barney F, and Chris Dodd would not allow any regulation or oversight of Freddie and Fannie. It was also democrats under Carter and clinton who started the concept of subprime mortgages.

The stimulus bill is another crime against the taxpayer by the democrats. it is simply a payoff to the people who put B. H. O'bama where he is.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Since it was under a republican administration that we ended up in this mess, why should we continue to listen to republican answers that obviously don't work?

Remember the "Republican answers" that got us into this mess were more spending. Bush spent way too much money. That was what got us here. So how do we get out??? Spend more money??? Hardly.

 

[JustChristian]

Whether true, as you believe, or false, as I believe, it has no real relevance to the discussion at hand. What Obama is doing is either right or wrong in on its own. I say it's completely wrong. He's playing on people's fears of the worse - their insecurity - to rush the passing of legislation that actually won't help most them but will build a huge empire for a lot of politicians and bureaucrats and will benefit a few free loaders who live off the wages the rest of us earn.

I believe the discussion is about "Presidential Fearmongoring." At least that's what the title of the thread is. You try to turn every topic into an attack on the democrats.

 

[Dragoon68]

I believe the discussion is about "Presidential Fearmongoring." At least that's what the title of the thread is. You try to turn every topic into an attack on the democrats.

My comments have been directly related to the topic being discussed. You know that! I say that Obama is using fear to convince Americans that they must approve of the spending of $900 billion in their taxes else the sky will fall on them all.

 

[JustChristian]

It was a democrat Congress [Just like under Hoover.]. That Congress led by Barney F, and Chris Dodd would not allow any regulation or oversight of Freddie and Fannie. It was also democrats under Carter and clinton who started the concept of subprime mortgages.

The stimulus bill is another crime against the taxpayer by the democrats. it is simply a payoff to the people who put B. H. O'bama where he is.

The Republicans controlled the House throughout Bush's administration and the Senate for all but 2 years when the Democrats had a 51-49 advantage due to an Independent siding with them. If you can show facts to prove otherwise please do.

 

[LeBuick]

Remember the "Republican answers" that got us into this mess were more spending. Bush spent way too much money. That was what got us here. So how do we get out??? Spend more money??? Hardly.

How did Government spending cause the private sector to loose all these jobs? You guys have to be kidding...


Bush spent too much so it made every company all of the world go into an economic tail spin.... Get real.

 

[Dragoon68]

How did Government spending cause the private sector to loose all these jobs? You guys have to be kidding...


Bush spent too much so it made every company all of the world go into an economic tail spin.... Get real.

Panic spread by political leaders and the media has caused people to cut back on spending. That, in turn, has reduced demand which is followed by reduced supply. That leads to less production needed which means cut backs in employment.

The government encouraged - demanded - that mortgage lenders loan money to high risk applicants in order to make home ownership "more affordable". This lead to inflated home prices, over building of new homes, and eventually to an unacceptable level of foreclosures. The pendulum then quickly moved to extremely tight credit. Businesses can't get capital at reasonable rates so their growth slows down. They start cutting back to makes ends meet and more jobs aren't needed.

Both these problems are the direct result of government interference. No kidding at all!

 

[Creyn]

The Republicans controlled the House throughout Bush's administration and the Senate for all but 2 years when the Democrats had a 51-49 advantage due to an Independent siding with them. If you can show facts to prove otherwise please do.

Oh yeah... the SUPERmajority problem. Just can't face it can you?

The fact is, the Republicans would have needed a 3 Fifths majority to pass new regulatory legislation without the Democrats. They never had it, the Democrats never changed their votes.

Oh, and here's that troublesome video too... proving your beloved Democrats are responsible.

I notice you stopped responding to me when I proved it in the other thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&feature=related