Did yall hear something? It was too high for me, I could not attain unto it…. Wait, there it is again… Oh, wait. That was gb93433.
Gb93433, You’ll need to speak louder. See, I’m less than the spit on the bottom of Judas Iscariot’s shoes, and you are a LITTLE LOWER THAN GOD. You’re gonna have to condescend to men of low estate….
The LXX is interesting, but usually collects dust in my library. I thought the LXX ‘angels of God’ translation of Genesis 6 ‘sons of God’ was interesting, but I don’t hang my hat entirely on the LXX if that’s what you mean. I was simply making an observation.
After reading your post last night, I decided to just check a few places at random from my library as it piqued my interest. Here are a few findings…
My New American Bible actually translated this ‘a little lower than a god’ (interesting) with a note that says… little less than a god: Hebrew 'elohim, the ordinary word for "God" or "the gods" or members of the heavenly court. The Greek version translated 'elohim by "angel, messenger"; several ancient and modern versions so translate. The meaning seems to be that God created human beings almost at the level of the beings in the heavenly world.”
One of my commentaries on Psalms reads… “A little lower than the angels.” The word here for “angels” in all Hebrew texts is “elohim” – GODS, thus showing that Eve’s temptation is real (“be as gods” Gen. 3:5) because angels (“sons of God” Job 38:7) are present. That is why they are called “gods” in Psalms 82:1…
My Reformation Study Bible note for Ps. 8:5 says… The Hebrew word elohim, here translated ‘angels’ usually means ‘God,’ but it can mean ‘divine beings.’ If God were in view one would have expected, “You have made him a little lower than Yourself.”
[My thoughts exactly on the fact that it doesn’t read correctly if translated ‘God.’ Note my initial post on this].
My Spirit of the Reformation Study Bible states for Ps. 8:5… Heavenly beings. Hebrew ‘elohim’ usually translated “God.” “Angels” is an appropriate translation, because the Hebrew word can mean “supernatural beings” or even “rulers.”
I do have 2 Massoretic texts boxed up in my basement somewhere, so I haven’t checked that, but I take your word for it that it says Elohim. The point you have to consider is that not every word in Hebrew and Greek sees uniform translation. There are dynamic equivalents, etc. (Like DHK earlier brought up ‘God forbid’ in Romans 6:2 and he said ‘God’ nor ‘forbid’ are in the Greek. However, when I look at my Received Text Interlinear, it says ‘Not let it be!’ It is understood WHO would not let it be and thus ‘God forbid.’). Point is, Elohim doesn’t have to always be translated ‘God’ (it is actually plural in Hebrew – meaning 3 or more). It can be translated ‘gods’ or ‘a god’ and according to many scholars (see sample above) & more importantly the Bible itself (Heb. 2:6,7) ‘heavenly beings’ or ‘supernatural beings’ or ‘angels.’
Again, the new testament writer of Hebrews agrees that this should be ANGELS.
You’ve set yourself at variance with the New Testament:
Heb. 2:6,7
"But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him?
Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands..." (KJV)
You are trying your best to prove a contradiction in the Bible, and I’m trying to save you the trouble, the dilemma, and the embarrassment.
You’ve taken me to challenge for violating a perceived hermeneutical principle. I am fully aware of the context of I Corinthians 14. Actually, in my younger years, I had the entire chapter put to memory. This is a constant attack one gets when quoting any verse or portion of a verse. Well, you quoted that out of context. Presumably one would have to quote the ENTIRE BIBLE to quote in context. Think about that. There are about 33,000 verses in the Bible, so whenever you quote a verse, it is out of context.
What I quoted was, “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.” ( I Cor. 14:33).
You are insinuating this doesn’t have universal application. I am fully aware that the surrounding context is with respect to prophesying, but look also at verse 27 “How is it then brethren? When ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, HATH A DOCTRINE, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.”
So, doctrine would involve scripture. And when alleged scriptures contradict, is God the author of this? Are you saying that God really is the author of confusion EXCEPT ONLY IN CASES INVOLVING PROPHESYING?
The verse, as it stands, holds a universal application to all churches of the saints. When there is confusion in the churches of the saints (for one example, opposing Bible texts), don’t blame God.
Now, why will you not face Hebrews 2:6,7?
You said,
“Just because there are many quotes in the NT does not establish the OT text. If you try to line up every OT quote in the NT with an OT link you will come up short.
There are quotes in the NT from the OT which are paraphrased, interpreted and applied in a different context.”
Read Hebrews 2:6,7 a little more carefully. You are accusing the Holy Ghost inspired writer of Hebrews of mistranslation. (You also accused me of adding to the text when you said, “By adding “a little lower” you are adding to the text.”; Did the writer of Hebrews, under Holy Ghost inspiration, ADD TO THE TEXT?). It’s easy to accuse me because I’m nobody, but why don’t you accuse the writer of Hebrews in the same fashion for all these fine folks out here. We’re all eyes….
Heb. 2:6,7
"But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him?
Thou madest him A LITTLE LOWER than the ANGELS; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands..." (KJV)
