Preterism remains false - Did Jesus lie? NO!

[David Kent]

Not all Catholics hate the Book of Revelation. I'm not a Catholic but I have Catholic friends. There are futurist and preterist Catholics just like Protestants.

Not surprised, they were both taught by Jesuits in the 16th century,

The only teaching that Catholics don't like is historicism, that teaches the pope is Antichrist.

They love futurism.

 

[robycop3]

Actually no one else asks us to PROVE that anything happened, thats just your broken record.

And that broken record's gonna CONTINUE to play long as you keep hawking a false doctrine you cannot prove.

You are the only one that sez the beast hasta come with his deputy the false prophet.

No, I didn't say it at all. SCRIPTURE sez it.

I asked you to PROVE a literal physical millennium that you haven't yet either.

Yes, I DID. You just don't like the answer cuz it goes against your pret hooey.

Rev. 20:1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time. 4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of b]">[b]their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,

Now, "I" didn't prove it; GOD did in His own word.

Or what the Day of The Lord is, In 2nd Peter 3 and 1st Thess 4 and when it happens.

1 Thess. 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

See any mention of the "day of the Lord" here? Or anywhere in that chapter? The event described here is the return of Jesus, while Peter mentions the re-making of the surface of the earth.

Rev. 21:5 And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” And He *said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”

I don't hafta prove a thing. All I need do is repeat SCRIPTURE, either the words themselves, or their meanings. YOUR stuff is based upon conjecture, imagination, guesswork, & the writings of charlatans, while mine is based upon the WORD OF GOD, and history/reality.

 

[robycop3]

Wow Rant! you have a lot of stuff to cover and I don't know where to begin. I'll start off with this. Symbolism is impossible to prove in the scientific sense. It's like a giant word puzzle that we are all trying to put together. The translators weren't perfect and I'm convinced we don't have all of scripture. In other words there are books that were left out of the Canon. As a matter of fact The Book of Revelation almost didn't make it into the Canon. Based upon what we have, I think the evidence overwhelmingly supports past fulfillment of eschatology. I was a dispensational futurist just like yourself. I switched in 2006 after discovering Preterism in 2004. It took me 2 years of study before I became 100% convinced. One thing you mentioned in your 1st post was this:

"Heresy is a departure from the accepted and established teaching of scripture, which depends on the faith and doctrine of the evaluator; no creed has ever accepted preterism."

Dispensationalism, which I believe to be a false doctrine, was concocted by John Nelson Darby in the early 1800's. It was not taught by the early church. I believe Historicism is the longest running established "system" as an explanation of eschatology. Dispensationalism is relatively new if you consider the entire history of the Church. So based on your definition of heresy, Dispensationalism fits perfectly. Also you stated that no creed has ever accepted preterism. That is false. Here is an excerpt from Eusebius who was an early Christian pioneer. We're talking 4th century. Here is what he wrote in his Ecclesiastical History, Book 3, Ch. 5:

"But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by
a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to
leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella.
And when those that believed in Christ had come thither from
Jerusalem, then, as if the royal city of the Jews and the whole land of
Judea were entirely destitute of holy men, the judgment of God at
length overtook those who had committed such outrages against
Christ and his apostles, and totally destroyed that generation of
impious men. But the number of calamities which every where fell
upon the nation at that time; the extreme misfortunes to which the
inhabitants of Judea were especially subjected, the thousands of
men, as well as women and children, that perished by the sword, by
famine, and by other forms of death innumerable, all these things, as
well as the many great sieges which were carried on against the
cities of Judea, and the excessive sufferings endured by those that
fled to Jerusalem itself, as to a city of perfect safety, and finally the
general course of the whole war, as well as its particular
occurrences in detail, and how at last the abomination of desolation,
proclaimed by the prophets, stood in the very temple of God, so
celebrated of old, the temple which was now awaiting its total and
final destruction by fire, all these things any one that wishes may
find accurately described in the history written by Josephus."

Eusebius connected the calamities which fell upon the inhabitants of Judea in 70 AD with the abomination of desolation proclaimed by the prophets. There it is in black and white. 4th Century!

I told you before that a calamite is an extinct species of plant. Look it up in your Funk & Wagnall's.

 

[robycop3]

Not all Catholics hate the Book of Revelation. I'm not a Catholic but I have Catholic friends. There are futurist and preterist Catholics just like Protestants.

Since you mentioned Revelation, lets discuss Revelation chapter 1. Have you ever considered this verse? Rev. 1;1

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Did you notice that God gave John the Revelation of Jesus to show his servants(the 7 churches in Asia Minor) the things which shortly must come to pass?

But they HAVEN'T yet cometa pass. No getting by that big ole bear of a FACT.

 

[David Kent]

cometa

I didn't recognise the word "Cometa" so I looked it up and it seems that is a gun maker, and also Portuguese for Comet. There is a bus company in Brazil called Viação Cometa which means Road Comet

So what has that to do with preterism?

 

[David Kent]

n another thread, I stated that every prophecy Jesus made MUST come to pass EXACTLY AS WRITTEN i

You forget or perhaps didn't read that Jesus sometimes spoke in symbolic or figurative language,

 

[David Kent]

I told you before that a calamite is an extinct species of plant. Look it up in your Funk & Wagnall's.

I gave my Funk and Wagnall's to my granddaughter earlier this year. It was a very hefty two volumes, very good for flattening photos in the days when we had to develop, and enlarge photos.

 

[prophecy70]

1 Thess. 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

continue on to verse 5.

1Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

Rev. 20:1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time. 4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of b]">[b]their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,

Then is this literal?

4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

God said that in his word as well.

 

[prophecy70]

I don't hafta prove a thing. All I need do is repeat SCRIPTURE, either the words themselves, or their meanings. YOUR stuff is based upon conjecture, imagination, guesswork, & the writings of charlatans, while mine is based upon the WORD OF GOD, and history/reality.

Hafta (Persian: هفته) is the Persian word for week and is also used as a loanword in Hindi, Urdu and Turkish languages. A week has seven days, and is possible that it could be from Hepta, for seven.

Wikipedia.

 

[David Kent]

Prophecy70 Seems Roby is an expert in prophecy, but not in English?

 

[David Kent]

No getting by that big ole bear of a FACT.

Ole. Misspelled Spanish.

olé

[oh-ley]

• Examples
• Word Origin

interjection
1.
(used as a shout of approval, triumph, or encouragement).
noun
2.
a cry of “olé.”.

Dictionary.com

 

[robycop3]

Prophecy70 Seems Roby is an expert in prophecy, but not in English?

Have trouble with slang or textalk? I use both frequently.

 

[David Kent]

Have trouble with slang or textalk? I use both frequently.

I don't use slang, except as a Londoner born, i very rarely use Rhyming slang, such as taters, and barnet, not to forget skyrocket, and jellybone.

Actually there is a website called se1direct, SE1, London Southeast one, the area my parents hailed from has a forum and they ban text talk and slang. They seem to have higher standards than any Christian site I have been on. Certainly higher than yours.

 

[prophecy70]

Im 27 years old, I grew up with a cell phone in my hand. I text numerous times, and I don't think Ive ever used Hasta, or Hafta.

Text talk is short handing something. hafta is not really much of a time saver.

 

[David Kent]

Im 27 years old, I grew up with a cell phone in my hand. I text numerous times, and I don't think Ive ever used Hasta, or Hafta.

Text talk is short handing something. hafta is not really much of a time saver.

I use text a fair amount but I always use full English. Text talk is not necessary with predictive text.

We once had a French girl staying with us and she said "We are told that the English use 'yes' but the English never use yes."

That is partially true. On most forums you will see yep and yeah instead of yes.

Another moan is people using There instead of Their and viccy vercy (to use a bit of slang.)
Also There instead of They're

 

[David Kent]

Im 27 years old, I grew up with a cell phone in my hand. I text numerous times, and I don't think Ive ever used Hasta, or Hafta.

Text talk is short handing something. hafta is not really much of a time saver.

Yes I know pasta, may have some tomorrow

 

[prophecy70]

I use text a fair amount but I always use full English. Text talk is not necessary with predictive text.

We once had a French girl staying with us and she said "We are told that the English use 'yes' but the English never use yes."

That is partially true. On most forums you will see yep and yeah instead of yes.

Another moan is people using There instead of Their and viccy vercy (to use a bit of slang.)
Also There instead of They're

I would be lying if I said I wasn't guilty of that.

 

[prophecy70]

Yes I know pasta, may have some tomorrow

Pasta to me has some biblical goodness to it.

 

[robycop3]

I don't use slang, except as a Londoner born, i very rarely use Rhyming slang, such as taters, and barnet, not to forget skyrocket, and jellybone.

Actually there is a website called se1direct, SE1, London Southeast one, the area my parents hailed from has a forum and they ban text talk and slang. They seem to have higher standards than any Christian site I have been on. Certainly higher than yours.

Well, I'm gonna post AS I CHOOSE, within the rules of the board, & that's THAT! I'll say no more about it.
(No smart-aleckedness meant)

MEANWHILE, BACK AT THE RANCH..........

I posted in the OP that the prophecies of Jesus MUST cometa pass EXACTLY, TO THE LETTER, or it'd mean jesus had sinnedby making a false prophecy. No preterist has shown the board one quark of PROOF that all Jesus' prophecies have been fulfilled! That's the ONLY way they can prove their case!

That should be the preterists' only line here - to present PROOF that the prophesied eschatological events have already occurred. If they can't, the CHRISTIAN thing to do is to admit their error & renounce preterism.

Either some of Jesus' prophecies were false, or preterism is false. As preterism is man-made & having nothing proving it true, I believe every word JESUS said that He caused to be written down & preserved to this day.

Remember, Jesus said man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceeds from the mouth of GOD. And Jesus IS God, with His Father & the Holy Spirit.

 

[Aaron]

The biggest thing I think Premillennialists have to worry about is their belief in the restoration of the temple, and the reinstatement of the Levitical priesthood and its rites. (Not that the belief that Christ is coming again to establish a temporal kingdom isn't problematic in its own rights.)

Where Preterism may have it's difficulties, Premillennialism borders on antichrist.