Preterism remains false - Did Jesus lie? NO!

[robycop3]

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. MMM 2018 is 70 years of a Gen that's what the bible says !! {ISRAEL}

Did you miss the conversations in other threads where it was PROVEN that the greek word "genea", the one used for 'generation' here, does NOT always mean "the body of people alive at a given time"? Genea also means 'race' or 'nation'. that's obviously its meaning here, since those events did NOT occur during that generation, and Jesus does not lie.

Jesus was NOT incorrect; the interp of His words is what's incorrect. Those events have simply NOT all occurred, simple as THAT!

 

[robycop3]

You are fixed on Matt 24 and completely ignore the accounts of Mark and Luke. Luke writing of the same events as the others said Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. Completing his reading in Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

And Jesus had done JUST THAT, while also preaching His Gospel. And during the "days of vengeance', all that had been written against the jews uptil that time was fulfilled.

But againj, the "days of vengeance" were NOT the ESCHATOLOGICAL event fulfillment.

 

[robycop3]

On a horse or no?

We'll hafta see when He returns.

 

[robycop3]

They never seen him after the transfiguration?

Not transfigured, or with Moe & Lige.

 

[robycop3]

Let's assume for the moment you can wrest the notion that He was referring to His disciples from the narrative:

That's whom He was talking to!

Jesus was coming in His kingdom at the transfiguration?

Yer reachin', copper. LOL.

Oh, REALLY?
Then, WHEN did He return in great power & glory, visible as lightning, seen by ALL, as He said He would?

But, the fact He also said they wouldn't die till "all these things," some of which you assert is yet to come, is the nail in your coffin.

You're surrounded. Come out with your hands up.

MMRRPP! WRONG!

He said, (Matt. 16:28 “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

See anything about "all these things" ?

Besides that, you CANNOT get by that great big bear of a FACT that "all these things" have NOT yet happened!

 

[robycop3]

It has been fulfilled just not in your Hasta Hafta cometa mind.

No, they have NOT yet happened. Your "say-so" isn't PROOF!

 

[robycop3]

C'mon, preterists! Ya gotta do better than THAT! Again, all you've posted in this thread is conjecture, imagination, & guesswork - not one quark of PROOF!

If you can't PROVE the prophesied eschatological events have happened, you're proclaiming a packa LIES. If they HAVE happened, you should be able to:

Tell us the name of the antichrist/beast/man of sin
Tell us the name of his deputy the false prophet
Tell us all about his empire
Describe the marka the beast
Tell us when all life in the seas died & when all green grass was burned up
Describe the talking statue in the temple. (Hardta do when there aint no temple yet!)
And many other things Jesus prophesied would occur among the events surrounding His parousia

So far, you're batting ZERO.

Now, either ALL of Jesus' prophecies will cometa pass EXACTLY AS WRITTEN in their original language, or He told a lie 7 therefore sinned. As for me & my house, we shall continue to believe EVERY WORD Jesus spoke & caused to be preserved through this very day. I will NOT hafta answer for twisting His words & trying to corrupt them by adding new meanings to them, as YOU PRETS do, same as do the pseudo/quasi-Christian cults such as the JWs.

You simply CANNOT prove your case for the veracity of preterism at all, so, if you're Christians, do the CHRISTIAN thing & admit you were deceived by someone's jive talk, ask Jesus to forgive you for it, and publicly renounce the false pret doctrine!

 

[Aaron]

See anything about "all these things" ?

LOL. Matthew 24:34

 

[kyredneck]

the belief that Christ is coming again to establish a temporal kingdom isn't problematic in its own rights

Right. A 'visible, physical. literal coming' isn't even an issue with me.

 

[David Kent]

You simply CANNOT prove your case for the veracity of preterism at all, so, if you're Christians, do the CHRISTIAN thing & admit you were deceived by someone's jive talk, ask Jesus to forgive you for it, and publicly renounce the false pret doctri

If futurism is true, how come no christian church taught it till Edward Irving got it from the Jesuits in 1825? Were they all wrong?
Waldensians taught that the papacy was Antichrist from about AD 1260 when the pope showed his full persecuting powers. They suffered sever tribulation for that.
Jan Hus wrote to the English Lollards many letters referring to the papal Antichrist. The Lollards also believed the same. Hus (Huss) was burn't at Constance, many Lollards suffered the same. Tyndale was Garroted and burnt., Lollard John Brown was burnt at Ashford less than 20 miles from here. A number were burnt at Canterbury and some were starved to death in the Westgate Towers in Canterbury. In Wye, there was a dungeon called the Lollard Hole where Lollards were kept till they were burn't John Brown himself was stood on hot coals at Wye, till his soles were burn to the bone then he had to walk to the place of his execution.

After the reformation, Luther taught that the Pope was Antichrist. Calvin wrote that if you consider the claims of Christ, and then the claims of the pope, one could see he was Antichrist though he were a ten year old boy. it seems a ten year old boy in Calvin's day could see more clearly than many so called theologians today.

Presbyterians knew the pope was antichrist, as did baptists,

The pope sits in the temple of God claiming to be God. Jesus said the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat/ But they didn't teach Moses' doctrines. The pope sits in Jesus' seat but doesn't teach Christ's doctrine.

Don't worry there is no chance that you will be burnt by Rome as you are teaching Jesuit doctrines.

 

[David Kent]

THE COMING OF THE SON OF MAN

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.:Matthew 24:30-31, Mark 13:26-27, Luke 21:27-28.

At first sight this appears to be and account of the second coming of the Lord. This is why futurists start here and work bakwards throgh Matthew 24, placing the tribulation, abomination of desolation, eahquakes famines, pestilences and wars to end time events. Thus destroying the very foundation of the prophecy, the destruction of the temple. Placing that far into another future.temple, But if we reaturn to the beginning of the chapter, Jesus had just told the Pharisees that their house (temple) was left unto them desolate.

1 ¶ And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

The disciples looked on the temple and wondered how it could be left desolate during that generation and those great stones could all be thrown down in such a short time. (At that time the temple was not even finished, it was not completed until the time of Nero, shortly befoe it was destroyed.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

They went to the Mount of Olives and the disciples asked 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?

Carefully note, they were speaking of the then current temple, not some future temple.

The arguments for the historical fulfillment of this prophecy are so sound that some believe that the Lord did come as described, in AD.70. The weakness of this argument is complete lack of historical evidence, so let us look at alternative viws.

• 1.The Lord came spiritually or figuratively to Judge Israel. In a sense this is true as the Father has given Christ authority to execute judgement,

22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

It is true that God has come at other times. Zech 1:16, 8:3, Genesis 11:38.Isaiah 19.1, and a number of other places. However no one saw him at that time, Although Josephus describes some signs in the Clouds (not seen by him. though)

• 2 It therefore means all this must be in the future.

The failure of that teaching is that it contradicts all that has gone before.

So what now?

• 3 Mathew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

This, it is said never happened, however, Sun, Moon and Stars in prophecy can refer to people, or figuratively as judgements. Isaiah 13:9-21 Ezekiel 32:2-15 and other similar scriuptures;

To be continued

 

[David Kent]

More reasons why the first part of the Olivet Prophecy cannot be future/

1. Jesus said warned against any that said he would come in those days, in the desert or in some secret place. Josephus tells of many who at that time claimed to be the Messiah. Matthew:24:23-27

2. Jesus said that Jerusalem will be destroyed and the Jews who survived that tribulation woul be led captive among all nations. (Luke 21:24) This could not be the same time as the coming of Christ for at that time the Jews will not be led away to all nations. In AD 70 they were made slaves and led away some to the mines in Egypt as Moses said they would return to Egypt.

3. Jesus said no one would know the time of his coming but he gave a sign for the soon coming fall of Jerusalem and the temple. Jerusalem would be surrounded by armies, that is the AOD. When n would that be, during that generation still living. Jerusalem to be destroyed, sign Jerusalem surrounded by armies. The coming of Christ, no sign.

4. The sign for the destruction of Jerusalem, Jerusalem surrounded by armies, but Christ's coming as a thief in the night, like lightning , no warning. Men and women will go about their ordinary business, buying, selling, marrying then Christ will suddenly come.

5 Before the fall of Jerusalem the Christians in Jerusalem and Judea were to flee to the mountains. Then there was time to flee, but when Jesus comes we will not flee, but caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Before the fall of Jerusalem the believers scattered, but when Christ comes we will be gathered. A complete contrast.

 

[Covenanter]

About 100,000.000 so called Christians are preterists

Interesting number - about 100,000 Preterists - to 3 decimal places. Sounds about right. But 1/1000 of a Christian doesn't amount to much. We should be 100%

Are you arguing against hyperpreterists who see the invisible - all of prophecy as spiritually fulfilled - in the spiritual realm; or partial preterists who look for the return of Christ in glory for resurrection & judgment as the remaining unfulfilled prophecy? .

 

[David Kent]

Did you miss the conversations in other threads where it was PROVEN that the greek word "genea", the one used for 'generation' here, does NOT always mean "the body of people alive at a given time"? Genea also means 'race' or 'nation'. that's obviously its meaning here, since those events did NOT occur during that generation, and Jesus does not lie.

You futurists change you mind on your prophecies as much as the JWs do on theirs. Firstly you said it was not the generation that Jesus spoke to but the generation that saw the fig tree bud, 1948 as they saw it, then when that failed it was the six day war and now that has failed you come up with another idea. That can't fail till Christ comes then it will be shown to be false. These are not the only false prophecies of the dispies. The Irvingites, the first dispies taught the the rapture would be in 1833. Not a good record.

 

[David Kent]

Roby, We are still waiting for your understanding of Daniel 9.

 

[prophecy70]

Did you miss the conversations in other threads where it was PROVEN that the greek word "genea", the one used for 'generation' here, does NOT always mean "the body of people alive at a given time"? Genea also means 'race' or 'nation'. that's obviously its meaning here, since those events did NOT occur during that generation, and Jesus does not lie.

Actually it hasn't been proven.

Show me in Matthew where its talking about the whole jewish race, if its been proven.

 

[prophecy70]

Jesus was NOT incorrect; the interp of His words is what's incorrect. Those events have simply NOT all occurred, simple as THAT!

Yes he was correct, yes everything happened. And yes it happened within that generation.

Just like he said.

 

[Grasshopper]

Do you even know what you are arguing?

Who doesn't belief this?
Besides futurists.

No he doesn’t, he just steals it from others: http://www.letgodbetrue.com/pdf/preterism.pdf

 

[thatbrian]

The Left Behind series has messed up a lot of people. . .

 

[David Kent]

No he doesn’t, he just steals it from others: http://www.letgodbetrue.com/pdf/preterism.pdf

I don't think so, that article is not futurist either.