Pretrib quotes before the 1800s?

[Ellie777]

1Thes5:9 says that God has not appointed us to wrath....
The tribulation is God's wrath on the world...Those who are not saved by grace during the chruch age will have to go through this terrible time and many will be martyred.. but those of us who have received His free gift of salvation will be saved from the terrible day...
Thank God...

 

[postrib]

...The tribulation is God's wrath on the world...

Note again that during the tribulation nobody in heaven says God's wrath "is come" until after the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15, 18), in the 7 vials of God's wrath (Revelation 15:1; Revelation 16), not one of which is poured out on those of us who have obtained salvation.

...Those who are not saved by grace during the chruch age will have to go through this terrible time...

Is there a verse which refers to "the church age" and says it ends before the tribulation? Isn't the church forever? "Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen" (Ephesians 3:21).

Is there a verse which says grace ends before the tribulation? Isn't the covenant of grace the "everlasting covenant?" (Hebrews 13:20) Isn't the gospel of grace the "everlasting gospel?" (Revelation 14:6) How could we Christians who will be in the tribulation who have washed our "robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Revelation 7:14) and have "the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12) and are "in the Lord" (Revelation 14:13) not be in his grace?

...many will be martyred...

Is suffering martyrdom suffering God's wrath?

...those of us who have received His free gift of salvation will be saved from the terrible day...

Again, in the pre-trib view, will those who "obtain salvation" in the tribulation be "appointed to wrath?" How could that be when being "appointed to wrath" and "obtaining salvation" are mutually exclusive?

"God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

http://www.geocities.com/postrib

 

[Ellie777]

To Postrib : I Thess. 1:9,10 "...how you turned to God from idols to serve the Living and True God; And to wait for His Son from Heaven, Whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from wrath to come."

"Since in the person of our Representative we have already borne the full measure of God's wrath when Christ died on the Cross, the righteous God cannot righteously subject us to that wrath a second time. Since we have become members of the body of Christ, it would be subjecting the LORD Jesus Christ a second time to the wrath of God.?(G.F.)

The martyers suffered the wrath of satan not of God and the end time martyers will also suffer from the evil anti-christ...
But the terrible Day of the Lord that is coming on all the earth and all mankind will come from every direction including the heavens and famine, etc.. and will be worse than all the suffering the world has ever seen..
People will be saved but must endure to the end ... not receiving the mark of the beast will almost surely bring death...
The people in the old testiment did not receive the Holy Spirit the way we do in this age of Grace... but the Spirit came on them from time to time... The bible says that even the angels were amazed to see what we are partakers of..(not exact)... I think the church will be gone before the anti-christ is revealed and things begin to happen very quickly because she has gone...Everything will fall apart and the evil one will come with his power and the end will begin...Even so come quickly Lord Jesus...

 

[postrib]

...members of the body of Christ...

How could we Christians who will be in the tribulation after the cross and after Pentecost (i.e. not OT) who have washed our "robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Revelation 7:14) and have "the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12) and are "in the Lord" (Revelation 14:13) not be in his body?

...the terrible Day of the Lord that is coming...

Note that no verse says or requires that the day of the Lord begin before the 2nd coming.

I believe the day of the Lord is the day we wait and watch for, and will rejoice in:

"Waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Corinthians 1:7-8).

"Yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night... But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief... let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch" (1 Thessalonians 5:2, 4, 6).

"We are your rejoicing, even as ye also are ours in the day of the Lord Jesus" (2 Corinthians 1:14).

Paul said the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night (1 Thessalonians 5:2) and the Lord said he will come as a thief (Matthew 24:43-44), and there's no 3rd coming of the Lord.

I believe the subject of 2 Peter 3:4-10 is the promise of the Lord's 2nd coming: "Where is the promise of his coming?... The Lord is not slack concerning his promise... the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night" (2 Peter 3:4, 9, 10).

...will be worse than all the suffering the world has ever seen...

I believe Jesus said the tribulation will be cut short because we the elect will still be here: "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's (eklektos) sake those days shall be shortened" (Matthew 24:21-22).

I believe we in the church are the elect:

"Elect (eklektos) according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 1:2).

"Ye are a chosen (eklektos) generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light" (1 Peter 2:9).

"Put on therefore, as the elect (eklektos) of God... longsuffering" (Colossians 3:12).

"Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect (eklektos)" (Titus 1:1).

Note that at the 2nd coming some of us elect will still be "alive and remain" (1 Thessalonians 4:15) on the earth: "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect (eklektos) from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven" (Mark 13:27).

http://www.geocities.com/postrib

 

[Daniel David]

Okay, I just found this:

Morgan Edwards taught some form of pretribulationism as can be gleaned from the following statement in his book:

II. The distance between the first and second resurrection will be somewhat more than a thousand years.

I say, somewhat more --; because the dead saints will be raised, and the living changed at Christ's "appearing in the air" (I Thes. iv. 17); and this will be about three years and a half before the millennium, as we shall see hereafter: but will he and they abide in the air all that time? No: they will ascend to paradise, or to some one of those many "mansions in the father's house" (John xiv. 2), and so disappear during the foresaid period of time. The design of this retreat and disappearing will be to judge the risen and changed saints; for "now the time is come that judgment must begin," and that will be "at the house of God" (I Pet. iv. 17)... (p. 7; the spelling of all Edwards quotes have been modernized)

This excerpt is from a book written about 1740. He must believe the tribulation is only 3 1/2 years. He still believes the rapture will take place before the tribulation. He is the founder of Brown University (Baptist).